Lucy Letby - Specifically those who think she is guilty…

Sudden unexplained collapses and deaths of babies alerted doctors to the fact there was very likely foul play. She should have been removed as soon as the risk was highlighted but she wasn't.

Exactly this. Lucy Letby was the scapegoat of babies dying from a NHS unit working way under standard.

"This is just a thick, lazy, dismissive argument with no thought applied."

Rather ironic 😅. Something tells me you know nothing about the actual state of the unit you're talking about. Have you read the reports from the time stating how understaffed etc the unit was? How the consultants were only doing ward rounds twice a week instead of twice a day? For babies weighing a few hundred grams!

Most premature and sick babies still don’t die. The deaths were much lower despite the crap unit and the sick and premature demographic when she wasn’t employed there. This is just a thick, lazy, dismissive argument with no thought applied.

No one murdered those babies. They were premature, sick and their NHS care was awful.

To be fair if I was wrongfully arrested, my absolute worst side would come out.
I have Oppositional Defiance Disorder and hate authority and would not keep my cool.
I would be the angriest, hateful, venomous person they ever interviewed if they accused me of that and spoke down to me for it.
if that went public the rest of the world would be convinced I did it.

Do you know her personally?

Assuming you don’t, you’ve seen footage from her arrest and a handful of photographs.

The rest you’ve filled in yourself.

It’s not that she’s pretty, she looks pretty ordinary. It’s just that she has a childlike character that makes her seem endearing.

I think she does look typical, she seems very much inside her own head, quiet, introverted, socially awkward, who knows what goes on in her mind.

There was a post on here about men who people knew that turned out to be paedophiles the other day and everyone saying but they were shocked or they didn’t seem the type or they seem so nice and I was shocked but you only know the person they want you to know and what about all the domestic abuse victims who say but nobody would believe it because he’s so lovely in public.

She could have any amount of psychological issuess hiding behind a smile.

I worry about anyone who thinks it is an open and shut case. Many serial killers don’t fit the stereotype of a serial killer. It’s just all murky - we all know juries can get things wrong, we all know there have been miscarriages of justice in the past. we all know experts can lie or change their minds (Sir Roy Meadow) we all know people can be made scapegoats. Whether that happened here I have no idea - but to just dismiss the idea it is possible, is naive.

Why would I be unable to cope with that?

I think she's guilty. I think those who are determined to find anything that says she isn't, just can't cope with the fact that she doesn't fit the stereotype of a killer.

I agree. Nothing has been said that makes me think she is innocent. I am more convinced than ever about her guilt.

Really? Nothing?
Extraordinary.

I have no idea what TikTok has to do with this.

What are your thoughts on the prosecution failing to disclose the email from Ravi Jayaram admitting that Letby had in fact called him in, even though he claimed in court she hadn't? That was in Thirlwall, so there's no worry about Tik Tok here.

Nothing has been said that would make me think the original legal process and appeal were wrong, but then I don’t get my legal and current affairs knowledge from TikTok

Exactly that @Oftenaddled
The subject of deliberate scapegoating or not has been discussed many times over various threads. My question was particularly about whether people who had watched any of the documentaries really but more specifically the Ch5 one from yesterday can say that they still have no doubt and that the people interviewed or quoted were maybe unreliable/ Ill informed or just plain wrong and whether they considered the police/ expert witness for the prosecution were still infallible

I don't think many people believe there was deliberate scapegoating. The argument is that consultants couldn't accept the criticisms made in external reviews, suggesting their care was to blame. They had already noticed that Lucy Letby was present at most of the deaths under review. So they clung on to the idea that she had caused the deaths because this was more comfortable than facing up to their own failings.

If she isn’t guilty and she has been used as a “scapegoat” why has the mastermind of this not been identified?
surely if she was a scapegoat someone in hospital management must’ve “selected” her…it just seems completely unbelieveable

Do people still have absolutely no doubts of her guilt after watching the Channel 5 documentary that was shown yesterday?
I don't mind they have changed their mind and believe she is innocent....but to actually have no doubt seems incredible and unlikely to me.

The point here is, though, that there's just nothing in the transcript supporting those mad claims about Letby sneaking in at night. It's an invention

You can't make an informed decision if you just read some quotes.

I could take quotes out of that document to support any theory I chose.

No definitely not & if you ever do jury service they will remind you of that repeatedly

It means finding them guilty 'beyond reasonable doubt'

Weighing up evidence on both sides & deciding one side is stronger than the other is definitely not 'reasonable doubt'

That’s right. I do think there are still many questions to be answered in this case.

Ah ok. I’d assumed it was on the original arrest x