Lucy Letby - Specifically those who think she is guilty…

Sally Clark had 2 appeals
Birmingham 6 had 3 appeals

@Firefly1987
But you and to be fair other posters keep saying that she's only being considered to be innocent because of how she looks.
I'm disputing that and am saying that people are carefully considering the information out there that suggests that she didn't get a fair trial.
Multiple experts from different disciplines who dispute the verdict.
Witnesses who have changed their opinion or been proved to have been dishonest under oath.
No proof of actual murders.
Methods of murder which are impossible
I could go on but it's been explained many many times.

Yes of course. It wasn't aimed at you!

The experts-well two of them just dropped out and this is what they had to say about the remaining panels theories on the insulin poisoning-certain legal and medical arguments being advanced had "unresolvable problems" and were "inconsistent with the available evidence, science and established physiology".

Doesn't sound too hopeful? Without being able to debunk the insulin results there's no way she'll ever get out, and if she did the insulin poisoning it's obvious she did the rest too.

She is nowhere near being released. How come if she's innocent then her appeals keep being thrown out. Because she's guilty.

🙋🏻‍♀️ some of us have joined this thread for the first time acknowledging that have no idea if she is guilty or not but just wanting to have a conversation with people about the conviction considering everything that has come out from experts.

That's because they've been proven not-guilty and it was very obviously down to a computer error. Letby hasn't, she's not even close to it.

Well you know, OP did ask specifically for the guilty side's opinions, likewise the same old people always chime in on why she's most definitely innocent 🙄

With a name like that the documentary sounds already like its one sided.

I don't think these cases had anything as ridiculous as the murder by air in the NG tube; venous air embolism proved via uncommon symptom of pulmonary arterial embolism; claims that it's impossible for babies to dislodge their own ETT. There are reasons people were so alarmed by the Letby case

Oh. This is the first LL thread I have posted on.

These threads on Lucy Letby always end with Firefly writing masses of rubbish about why Lucy is guilty and by this point I decide I'm out!

@Firefly1987
I don't know the ages/ sexes/ ethnicities of the Post Office workers that were wrongly accused and jailed.
However I was extremely pleased that their convictions were overturned when it became obvious there was an enormous miscarriage of justice.
I'd lay money down that they weren't all " young, blonde and female" though.
People on the whole do think far more carefully and critically than you appear to be giving them credit for.

Oh that's rich given your failure to engage with the medical evidence, which currently points ridiculously strongly to no murders being committed, and thus renders the weak circumstantial evidence worthless.

Tell me again how the hell the "liver injury" was accomplished? Or how air down an NG tube could be administered in such volume to cause splinting of the diaphragm? Or why no evidence of air embolism was found at post mortem?

Actual evidence indeed. It's all theory, hypothesis and conjecture, plus a hefty dose of character assassination. And that is not how our justice system is supposed to work.

With that in mind, do you think Shoo Lee would've just not been arsed about Dewi Evans misinterpreting his research if Letby were an Asian man like him?

Or could it just be that a regular person like you and I don’t know enough to decide if she is guilty and maybe, just maybe, we should apply a little critical thinking considering the flip flopping of the professionals and all acknowledge that miscarriage of justices can happen. This isn’t an open and shut case. The state of the department that LL worked in and the professionals who appeared at her trial who have spoken publicly since have made the waters so murky that nobody can now definitively say whether she is guilty or not. And what does that say about our NHS?

People believed Sally Clark and Angela Cannings were very obviously guilty - the abuse they got from the public was disgusting. They got little public support. Sally Clark never recovered. I don’t think it is a demographic thing.

People need to engage with the actual evidence if they're genuinely interested in this case. Of course you think she's innocent when they had a very biased documentary leaving out ALL the damning evidence! Her PR team is trying their best to turn public opinion-don't be fooled by it.

I think the point is no one would be questioning the conviction of a very obviously guilty woman if she has from another demographic.

I never saw all this support for Ben Geen, Colin Norris, Victorino Chua?

A duty solicitor will often advise you not to answer questions, especially not when they are asked repeatedly.

She worked there from 2012.

Of course most premature babies don't die. Most premature babies at Chester didn't die, even in its worst period. But some did.

We know that failures in care lead, tragically, to extra infant deaths. That has been all over the news for units other than Chester. It makes sense to ask whether this was the case at Chester too. There's no indication that the police ever did this. There are multiple reports from sources both confident in the prosecution and otherwise that they instead took their accounts of unexplained deaths and collapses direct from the medics who would have been responsible for these failings in care.

There weren't any sudden unexplained collapses... the babies mostly had postmortems which found causes of death. Spoiler... it wasn't air embolism in any of them. The consultants, doing 2 ward rounds a week, who were Paediatricians as opposed to Neonatologists, couldn't work out why them not being present on a filthy ward run by inexperienced nursing staff, meant a higher number of babies were dying than expected! They looked for someone to blame (a scapegoat if you will) and should have taken a look in the mirror. It is all absolute madness.

This would happen on any intensive care unit again if you replicated the same circumstances.

But as always the question remains... were there any murders?
Many many experts in their field have said that no evidence of murder was found.. therefore everything else including odd or unprofessional behaviour is irrelevant.

She refused to answer several of the police questions, was very vague and didn't recall certain babies when questioned, lied about not having a shredder to dispose of the notes when one is seen in her house on police cameras, didn't return the notes when brought home 'accidentally', kept the notes arranged alphabetically at home, wrote that she did it, made odd references to the babies in her diary etc. If she is innocent (which I doubt) she certainly did herself no favours....

I am also convinced she’s innocent, but less convinced that people who have really made up their mind will always change it when prevented with good evidence. There’s a certain mindset that won’t think critically.
The nearest I have got to a pithy line about why I am so sure she’s innocent is that you have to believe far more implausible things to think she’s guilty than that she’s innocent.

It’s nothing to do with her being blonde/mousy, pretty/ordinary looking etc. I don’t have any trouble believing that a polite, well spoken, nice seeming young woman can be a killer- at my age I have known enough people who are a lot less pleasant than they seem. It’s the fact that to believe she’s guilty you have to believe, to name but a few:
-she put insulin into tamper proof feed bags without leaving a trace (nobody has explained how she is supposed to have done this)
-she magically knew which feed bags her colleagues would choose when she was not on duty
-she injured a baby internally with the force of a car crash without leaving any external marks or being seen
-she killed babies through a means never used before (air embolism) which in her case left no trace even though known air embolism deaths can be detected at post mortem by leaving air bubbles in the heart
-she killed babies by over feeding them, also an unknown murder method

Honestly the implausible claims just go on and on.
Someone said upthread that the cluster of deaths of babies in that state is impossible without a killer. Actually as Prof Hutton points out there have been several such clusters in similarly failing hospitals. I would love to know if people who think Letby is guilty think there are undetected serial killers in all of them.

I am absolutely convinced she is innocent, but I wouldn’t be able to condense why into a pithy line or two. If you’re interested, take a look at the channel ‘Lucy Letby Analysis’ on YouTube. The journalist Chris Morris has conducted hundreds of interviews now with professionals such as obstetricians, neonatal specialists, midwives, etc, about the case. You need to commit time to it, but if you did I really think you’d become convinced of her innocence too.