To absolutely hate this government, and what they are doing to our country? PART 2

Oh yeah the far right again. It's not the far right being cold over the photo of a deceased child.

You wouldn’t know that if it wasn’t for the context.

Reform's mobile game is about watching out for boats. Kemi Badenoch has called them out for literally playing games. I see the hyperbolic language has returned today.

Oh yeah the far right again. It's not the far right being cold over the photo of a deceased child.

There are people on this thread cheering on the fuckwit that was slashing at boats with at least one person in them.

There are people on this thread refusing to condemn this act and the fuckwits gathering in black and balaclavas.

There are people o this thread who are ok with hearing children with megaphone chanting let them drown.

Where the fuck do these people think this ends? Getting pissing and expressing faux outrage over a picture and news article laying out the results of what some on this thread have been clamouring for is a really strange reaction. Where is the compassion and empathy for a tragic event that some people on this thread would like replicated.

Are you projecting your faux outrage? Who has said they want children killed - on this thread? Come on, back up your claim. @Gtfto2024

@LuckyHazelFoxhasn’t posted about ‘sinking boats’.

They do sink though or rather people die trying. Especially women and children, although a man died this week trying to make it.

It’s not a good system. Plus it is poor at identifying risk.

What's the game called?

Then if you can only see this system as viable if numbers go up tensions will too and chaos and risk to those crossing.

Why do you keep mentioning reporting posts? How about thinking before you go ahead and press post, instead of sneering about responses.

Reform has released a game that is about shooting small boats, it is based on real time arrivals and offers prizes to the highest scorers.

They do not care children and women are aboard.

Reform has released a game that is about shooting small boats, it is based on real time arrivals and offers prizes to the highest scorers.

They do not care children and women are aboard.

I read this logic a lot, but can you not see that you’re conflating two completely different things? Culture and individual personality are not the same.

Culture consists of socially learned norms, attitudes and behaviours. It does not determine someone’s innate personality, their moral character or individual propensity to commit sexual violence. Think about it - two people raised within exactly the same culture can have radically different personalities and behaviours. So even though you can argue that particular attitudes towards women are more prevalent within certain cultures (you will certainly get no arguments from me about that), you can't just transfer those characteristics onto every individual who comes from those cultures. I'm amazed this even needs explaining.

As an example, the US has a much stronger gun culture and a substantially higher homicide rate than the UK. But you wouldn’t be on here arguing that Americans in Britain are more likely to murder someone because 'culture.' You would need evidence showing that Americans living in the U.K. actually are murdering at higher rates before making that claim - as far as I know there is no evidence of this. If this still needs stating, a news article or any number of emotive articles or anecdotes about Americans who actually have murdered people in the U.K. (because of course there will be some) is not what I mean by 'evidence.' Anyone can find articles or anecdotes to back up any agenda.

There is also a fundamental problem in assuming that migrants are representative of the societies they have left. Why would you assume this? If anything, they are likely to be less conforming or they left precisely because they reject aspects of the society they came from. If you were in the Taliban 'establishment' or on the right side of them, why would you flee a society where you have power? I'm sure you realise that the millions live in terror because are deemed not on the right side of the Taliban - it doesn't take much. This is why they put their lives in the hands of these terrible people smugglers. Do you really think the majority people in Iran are fans of the regime there? Really? Just be glad you don't have to make the life choices some people have to make. Would your innate character be different if you happened to have been born in Iran? Or would you be the same person, just in Iran?

This is not to say that all migrants will be delightful members of society. In any group, there will be some bad actors. I am not here to defend rapists ffs - why would I be? I'm not here to defend any men from anywhere, quite the opposite in fact. I'm just here to try to defend against hypocrisy and insidious racist stereotyping where I see it, because it's dangerous and I think we should be better than this. That's it. Otherwise we're not a great nation at all, are we.

I do support them publishing the information.

I also understand the govt have to be careful to not release incomplete data that obfuscates the wider picture because you only have to be on this thread to see the dangers of selective interpretation; how the media will twist anything and how the Far Right are clamouring to weaponise whatever they possibly can.

This sort of argument would be addressed by the government releasing the data that demonstrates that your theory is true.

I think it’s important to consider why they are fighting the ICO decision that they should release the data.

If your theory is true it would take away a huge part of the objections from critics of mass migration wouldn’t it.

Also consider the data from countries like Denmark that shows exactly the opposite of your theory - men from a long list of countries where VWAG is very high are committing a high number of crimes per capita.

So many people so desperate to defend the actions of this government- why not just support them publishing the information?

Very well put.

And I think much what you say can be joined to what I have just posted today, with some gaps filled in by expanding some things.

Many people in general, living in these impoverished oppressive states, have had generations of indoctrination and censorship. And for anyone who wants to break free of that, the local gang lords are right there ready, with their stories of "streets paved with gold" to sell them. The very stories that Farage etc broadcast.

This reminds me of the Morcombe Bay cockers tragedy. I was talking to a Chinese national about it not long after, and they said the victims mostly came from the same small poor area in China. And what happened is one or two people had "escaped" to the west, sent money home to the family, The family had built mansions with that money, and the neighbours said " Oh, how did you manage that". And a whole trafficking industry from that area was spawned.

And as that story unfolded, it turned out what I had been told was true. And it was the UK police and Government, working with their Chinese counterparts, who shut down that specific industry in that specific area. Arrests were made people convicted, and the UK introduced new gang master laws. And China expanded their own gang smashing operation all over.

And the thing is, the Cockle Picker story is connected to the Migration Watch FOI thing. Because although China is not seen as a "friendly nation" as such, the Governments do need to work together to try to solve things. And when you have a segment of the political class yelling for total visa bans, that would likely antagonize the very nations that Government are trying to work with, no matter how limited that working together is.

It is my firm belief that Farage and palls have no interest at all in helping solve these issues. They want to make it worse. Because they benefit from it politically. It is their only path to power.

Which countries would you swap that cultural background with?

This sort of argument would be addressed by the government releasing the data that demonstrates that your theory is true.

I think it’s important to consider why they are fighting the ICO decision that they should release the data.

If your theory is true it would take away a huge part of the objections from critics of mass migration wouldn’t it.

Also consider the data from countries like Denmark that shows exactly the opposite of your theory - men from a long list of countries where VWAG is very high are committing a high number of crimes per capita.

So many people so desperate to defend the actions of this government- why not just support them publishing the information?

Our own history shows how laws and norms influence behaviour and how behavioural changes follow contextual change.
I'm gen X, and many of my generation have been subject to what is now considered abuse by adults, smacking by parents, caning and humiliation by teachers. Yet we don't conclude that all boomers/silent gen are innately dangerous to children, despite the fact adults in these generations will be statistically more likely to have struck a child.
With specific regard to male attitudes to women and girls, I have seen in my own lifetime the progression made by ordinary white British men from the routine indulgence in appalling sexism and harassment to moderation in line with legislative and cultural change.
The men who thought it was OK slap my backside as I collected glasses, who ogled 16 year old page 3 girls, who didn't turn a hair when Bill Wyman married a 13 year old aren't all dead yet, but mostly don't do these things now they know they'd not get away with it.

This is a really thoughtful, interesting point. I also wonder if there’s anything to consider in the fact that - certainly in the case of genuine asylum seekers - migrants might well actually be leaving their home countries because they reject any violence prevalent there..? In which case, aren’t those people choosing to move to the west potentially least likely to hold those harmful cultural attitudes..? In which case, the crime rates in those countries is not necessarily useful. I don’t know - but I certainly don’t think it’s helpful to see all men from any particular place as inherently violent or dangerous. And the problem with any data that does get released is you worry that people will use it to argue whatever they want to.

Nothing. It’s a man carrying a child who could be asleep.