To think it's impossible to work full time and keep a clean/tidy house without a cleaner?

Yes get a cleaner with having crohns on top of -
working full time on nhs!

Me too

Well, having viewed numerous houses with my son when he was recently buying, some do,yes. Honestly, if you won't make an effort when your house is up for sale,when will you? It made me wonder what else was left undone?

Of course not, how ridiculous. You just load as you go, switch it on when it's full and then come back when it's done to put away.

A full dishwasher is probably several rounds of washing up - you'd either need someone to dry and put away or you'd need to keep doing this because otherwise your draining board will be full. It's probably 5 mins of work vs 30 mins <awaits someone to come along and say they can wash up, dry and put away 12 plates/bowls, 12 drinking vessels, 12 cutlery sets, serving spoons, knives, pans and chopping boards in 4 minutes, and clean the kitchen window while they're at it, hence a dishwasher is a pointless extravagance>.

I'd rather keep my dishwasher than my husband.

I can always find another husband.

good lord, no!

Takes seconds to load, you can do it all day long, the kitchen is always clean and clutter free, everything is washed better than when you do by hand. I hate to see anything drying personally, and my stuff would take more than the 5mn tp dry it takes me to clean the kitchen

It doesn't take long to unload, I do it first thing with my coffee in the morning, while my bed is being aired with the windows wide opened.

What takes ages is teaching the kids to put things in the dishwasher and not leave them next to it 😂

but apart from that, no glass, no mug, no nothing cluttering the worktops

Mine have already mastered the NOTHING goes in the sink ever or I murder you

I have never had one.

No I definitely think a dishwasher is easier. I once lived without one and it was torture 🤣🤣

To be fair my DP does all of these things 😅

Can I ask everyone on here, since it's a cleaning thread essentially, is having a dish washer not more work than just washing the dishes?

All the loading and unloading must take more time than just washing the dishes, leaving them to dry on a rack while you do the worktops (sides?), top of the cooker and sweep the floor, then you just put them all away.

I notice this in the mornings, while my breakfast is in the microwave,(5 min) im.picking stuff up, clearing things up, washing up or loading the dishwasher, maybe stuffing a load of laundry in the machine.
If DH is waiting for something in the microwave hes just....waiting!
He checks his train app before leaving, if the train is cancelled or late, he literally folds his arms and huffs, rather than seeing if he could do anything useful in the kitchen!

For women with children, I think it starts in maternity leave. Many women have a year at home with the baby. Most of them are going to do the lion's share of baby-related stuff and housework during that year. I mean you are there anyway. So the mother becomes the default one signing up for baby groups/doing most nappy changes/reading about weaning/having a system for washing up/sanitising bottles etc./running the hoover every morning/sticking the breakfast things in the dishwasher/changing the sheets every friday etc. It is really hard to change that dynamic when she goes back to work. He has got used to things in the house magically happening and she often finds it easier physically to just do it herself. it sure isn't easier mentally though.

I had only 3 months maternity leave and while that isn't ideal at all it did mean that dh and I never got used to me being the default cleaner/housekeeper.

Oh I love this!

They also never think to do things like unload the dishwasher whilst the kettle is on. Or wipe down the shower whilst the kids are in the bath. This is my point. There are systems- but they are our systems and it’s still unfair. They never have to think like this!

Exactly. There's probably not a man alive who has ever cleaned the sink with his left hand while cleaning his teeth with his right.

Yes I think both can be true. When I worked full time it was definitely the societal expectation that DH would stay late and I would be the one doing the nursery pick up. I think things have changed a little. But I still think men don’t ask for flexible hours and we as women don’t want to go in to battle with them.

I had to retrain in a different career. It’s also hard to push back on your DH when he’s actually in a different country! But equally how lovely for him to travel at a moment’s notice as I was picking up the slack at home and working full time (yes I am bitter!).

I think this is why we shouldn’t downplay the consequences of us doing the lions share at home. It can have far reaching impacts. Like I said men don’t have these conversations on how to balance the cleaning and childcare with their work. They should and would it started impacting them
more.

Yes I agree - I’ve said on another thread I don’t know if it still comes down to the fact that perhaps the less flexible, site based jobs (eg engineering or construction) are predominantly male heavy, or just that women make more of an effort to negotiate flexible working terms than men? I suppose both can be true!

I do get this. But then it’s always/usually the DH who has the non flexible job that is better paying and less time so then we take on the lion’s share at home too. Because we can’t possibly push back on them to do more when they earn more and have less time.

Yes systems and routines help but we shouldn’t downplay the load.

Equality would look like men and women having equal earning power. It would look like the same amount of paternity leave as maternity , it would look like 50:50 at home in terms of cooking, cleaning, laundry, kids stuff, school pick ups, childcare, clubs, admin. The list goes on. When women get overwhelmed by all this, that’s when they dial down their careers or even step off the career ladder. By spelling out it should all be shared then that’s the only way things will improve.

Pretending it’s fine whilst we hoover the stairs at 9pm after a full day’s work is partly the reason nothing changes.

I think some people are genuinely disorganised and feel overwhelmed because they refuse to just sit down and deal with things but it becomes such a constant struggle, it's heavy
Look at home many parents can't keep up with 2 school emails 😂. They're happy on social media for hours

Others are generally busy, and (reasonably)resent the "admin" that takes from their free time when they've barely finished with work, kids.

So definitively a middle ground!

I also think that people are a bit hypocritical. When SAHM deal with everything during school hours, they free time to spend with or around their kids. Just because we can manage it all as well with a full time job, doesn't mean we have the same time for kids. You can't be in 2 places at once. Something has to give.
I don't feel it is untrue to say a SAHM is busy during school hours. I suspect there's a bit of jealousy here.

Oh I do agree to an extent, definitely! There’s no way men are tying themselves up in knots over things like this.

But also, for me there’s not really an option! I am so lucky to have a career that 50 years ago would’ve been unavailable to me, which offers me financial independence and a chance to stretch my brain. But also, the housework still needs doing, the kids still need taking the school, the laundry still needs doing. My job is so incredibly flexible that I am able to be more present with the kids. My DP’s isn’t flexible, but pays well so he is not available to do those jobs during the week.

The choice is either to not bother do it either, or to find routines that work for our family and crack on with it. For me, having a house that is clean and calm is non-negotiable, and at the moment that falls more onto me. Either I can moan about it, or I can accept that actually I’m lucky to have a choice to work, and just get on with it without dwelling too much.

I went with a company that is known for lower quotes. My insurance is not due until November but I sorted it the other day. I got it 200 less than last year. I know I won’t get that elsewhere

This. Plus there's doing it, and doing it well and the cost difference can be hundreds of pounds.

We got our car insurance renewal a few weeks ago. We could have just accepted the renewal. But I spent half an hour with price comparison sites etc and got the price down by over two hundred of pounds, with a much lower excess too.

Repeat for home insurance, broadband, utilities, mobile phones, streaming packages etc etc and if you don't keep on top of the renewals, you could be throwing away hundreds of pounds a month in CBA money. Someone has to do it.

2 parents both work full time with a 4 and 7 year old. We do both work some days from home and utilise every lunch to keep on top of it but i just can’t relax on an evening unless the house is somewhat put together.

Things I found that helped was lowering expectations, ultimately I want our house to feel like a lived in and loved home not a show home. Also the ‘don’t put down put away’ method. I was forever finding things that I just put down instead of the extra 30 seconds it would take for me to put it where it belonged we have also sort of loosely implemented this with the kids eg if they have finished playing instead of get ting the next pile out put it away first, expectations are low but does work on the odd occasion

more onerous Jobs like bathroom clean I do why the kids are drying after a bath a quick once over and a deep clean on a Sunday and putting washing away ect squeezed in on lunch break or while tea is cooking.

most importantly there are two of us and both pull our weight if we both want to live in a tidy/clean house it takes both of us I do think if I was in my own/with someone who didn’t see the need a cleaner would be essential

yeah, best ignore! ❤️

My husband and sons when they realised they couldn't find anything and there were no clean towels and no food in the fridge.

Who tidied up?