What do we REALLY think about the weight loss jabs?

Ok thanks for clarifying. WLIs do make it possible to lose weight without necessarily bettering those habits, but it's really important to spell out that people mostly weren't changing them anyway. The societal trend was the other way. Our eye was already a very long way from the ball.

Which means the appropriate, reality based comparison even just for that cohort isn't weight loss via healthier methods vs weight loss through WLIs. It's overweight/obese and unhealthy vs thinner and unhealthy. Thinner and unhealthy is better.

I'm less interested in hypotheticals (no offence like) but do want to hear more about why you think WLI usage is perpetuating the idea that people can’t help themselves but become obese. Ie a thing that's happening already. Nothing you've written has provided any evidence for that, or even really explained it.

Rationing - calorific value of rationed items including half a pound of sugar, a quarter pound of butter per adult a week, half a jar of jam/preserves each a month = about 1680 kcal daily.
Unrationed items (like potatoes, veg, bread, fish, fish and chips) took it up to a planned 3000 a day - and about 3500 for somebody in a manual occupation.
Pregnant women were able to increase their intake with milk/cod liver oil/orange juice etc.

There's even a record in Hansard to say pre war average daily intake was 3000 https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/1947-05-19/debates/f738cdb5-6a0a-49de-9f68-1788f58ef7f0/CalorieIntake1934%E2%80%9338

OP's not been back then 🙄

I've lost 7 stone on mj and no food makes me ferl unwell. The difference id feeling full for longer and less food noise

It is a disease dear. The WHO says so. You cant just decide it isn't so you can keep your moral superiority intact.

You’re completely correct,

what the poster is missing is the drugs force you to change your diet, assuming it was poor in the first place, as for many its portion control, too much fatty or sugary food makes you unwell, so people either change their diets or come off tne meds as they don’t work for them.

in addition fat people are fat, not stupid. Not greedy and lazy. Sitting gorging on burgers and donuts. Unsure of what to eat. The fat melting off as they inject. Changing your diet is a given. And food tastes different. Things taste much sweeter. The desire for the fatty sugary stuff goes completely

we already see it in retail and hospitality, more healthy options being offered, more protein based foods,

sp this people don’t change their habits, is nonsense, if they have poor habits and don’t change them they won’t stay on the frugs for more than a few weeks, as they’d be very unwell. Anyone successful, you know by default eats a clean and healthy diet.

The safest way to loose weight is to eat less and move more. However if it were that simple no one would be obese. The jabs may carry risks as does all medication but they are considered ‘safe’ and there are measures in place to stop them being prescribed to those with particular risk factors. I have lost 63lb on them and have had minimal side effects. I am much more healthy now that I was before I lost the weight. For me the risk of taking the jabs was less than the risk of staying obese. If you can do it without crack on. You do sound a bit bonkers with your conspiracy theory talk so maybe it’s not for you.

My apologies for my poor comprehension.

Yes we’ll see. As I said before I am inordinately happy to be able to access GLP1s for the impact they have had on my health and fitness and the impact on my family life.

You don’t need to guess what I think, because I keep telling you - I think not everyone is the same, and that people’s life experiences and responses to things vary. So the idea being portrayed here that all users are obese/unwell and have changed their lives as a result, is wrong. And it would be wrong for me to portray all users as similar to those in my loose social circle.

If formerly obese adults become genuinely fitter and more active, then yes that is likely to have some impact on their children. If they teach their children good eating habits (which they may have done all along) that would make even more of a difference. I guess we’ll see in time.

By “play into” I mean exactly that - they enter an existing landscape and become part of it. I don’t mean WLIs created any of these things, neither do I mean they have no impact. I don’t know how else to explain that 🤷‍♀️

Of course unhealthy habits existed before WLIs. My point is that WLIs make it possible to lose a significant amount of weight without necessarily changing those habits. There is already evidence of people losing substantial weight on GLP-1s without an improvement in diet quality, and that brings fewer health improvements than WLI+diet improvement+exercise.

I think there’s a legitimate question about whether putting more emphasis on pharmaceutical treatment makes it easier to ignore the conditions producing the problem in the first place, as I have said already in the thread.

And yes, “can” is deliberate - meaning both ‘yes think this is happening’ and ‘this might happen in the future’. You’ve got a pp saying people who can’t access WLIs or are unhappy about their body must envy them. That notion doesn’t come from nowhere, Western (white) women are competitive about weight, it’s not news.

@Allisnotlost1 I didn’t suggest that childhood obesity would naturally reverse. I said that fitter and healthier adults might help reduce childhood obesity.

I think the kind of people you seem to know and describe have issues with parenting that existed prior to the availability of WLI and they would have issues whether they took them or not. I guess you think that the majority of people who take WLI also have very uninterested and unthinking parenting styles like the people that you know.

I’m not no! Do you not talk to your friends or acquaintances, or see them with their kids? I’m not deciding what they think, I’m describing a situation based on what I’ve seen and heard. Newly slim mums, and some dads, kids still overweight and inactive and eating junk food. I don’t think these are parents who ‘don’t care’ about their kids, but they haven’t actually changed the habits that made themselves overweight (and it was mainly overweight, not obese). Meanwhile I have family who are diabetic and use GLPs, had to try several and dosing etc to manage horrible side effects, who are and have been for a long time very careful about their diet. So no, I don’t think all users are the same.

Perhaps you’re right, but the drivers of obesity haven’t changed so it seems fairly unlikely to me that childhood obesity will just naturally reverse. Is there data on increased meaningful activity after WLIs?

I think we probably need clarity on what you think 'play into' means. Are we talking about something that you believe changes an existing landscape? That's important to be clear on when these are problems that not only existed before WLIs but were increasing, and when the things you're discussing would be changes for the bad.

You mention in your second paragraph WLIs enable parents to continue modelling habits to children, but you evidently accept lots of parents were already doing this already. If 'enabling' were needed, it has existed for a while. So do you think it's the case that WLI access increases this kind of behaviour, or that levels will stay similar/drop thanks to WLIs but there will still be some other kind of change?

You also said initially that they seemed to be perpetuating the idea, which is written like you believe this is a truth already happening, and then it's changed to 'can' ie hypotheticals. I can't tell from that whether you believe WLIs are now perpetuating the idea or that you think they could at some point.

@Allisnotlost1 you see them using WLI? Or do they tell you? And then you also see them with their children enough to know that they are modelling unhealthy habits? I wonder in what capacity you see this at work - are you a social worker?

I think having a generation of adults who are no longer obese at the rates we currently see will benefit children and help reduce childhood obesity, personally. That’s based on my own experience of moving from morbidly obese to a healthy weight, which of course means I am more active than I was before. Same with everyone else on the long running threads for WLI support. Mothers who are healthier, fitter and eating better, and also no longer weighted down mentally by being obese. I think it’s odd to think that those parents would decide that it doesn’t matter if their children get obese when they’ve just spent time and money on stopping being obese themselves.

I see it a lot where I live - among people I know through work or the gym or hobbies, and to a lesser extent where I work. Of course not everyone, but enough to make me aware of it.

ETA yes plenty of parents would not have modelled good habits regardless, but some are also so enamoured by their weight loss they’re blind to what caused the gain. I unfortunately know lots of women who have more money than sense and buy into the peri/cortisol/supplement lifestyle stuff, but don’t take much notice of what their kids are doing!

Of course new things coming into an existing system play into it. Does a baby have nothing to do with the nature of its pre-existing familial landscape?

Any treatment for obesity, or for being overweight if via private prescription, plays into a landscape where access to healthy food and green space and other health creating activities are hugely varied according to economics, and can enable parents to continue modelling unhealthy habits to children. It can mask the responsibility of governments to ensure food security and quality. It can contribute to a culture that values thinness and acceptability over health, and the structural elements of health, even for people who are not obese and don’t use WLIs.

@Allisnotlost1i think people who use WLI and don’t teach their children about healthy eating won’t have done it anyway even if WLI were not available to them. It’s not a related issue imo. I really don’t see people behaving that way everywhere. I’d be intrigued to know where you see it everywhere?

That's a large leap in the first sentence. How do WLIs play into the dynamic that already existed before them, or perpetuate that idea? I agree with the second half of the post but the first is missing a lot of working out.

Absolutely, but WLIs now play into that, it’s not a separate issue, and they seem to be perpetuating the idea that people can’t help themselves but become obese. By the time people are obese it’s very difficult to do anything other than drastic intervention. The time for action is at that 30% overweight part of the population.

Again, what a lot of projection.

Im not insulted, you are being insulting. It would be as bizarre for me to be insulted as it is for you to imagine I envy you. We are strangers to one another.

Truly happy people don’t feel the need to try bring others down. If it helps you to imagine others as chubby and sad about it while you’re using drugs for life to control your own thoughts, that’s fine with me.

Yeah, some. Whatever we were doing demonstrably wasn't working though. We were starting from a long way behind the line! I think it's wise to be clear about the hole we were in on the eve of widespread WLI availability as well as the one we're still in now.

But I am ok with it, if I wasn’t I’d say, why would I lie?

and the fact you’re insulted isn’t on me. And why would you be envious. Multiple reasons, you could be over weight and unable to access, you could be a bit chubby and unhappy with your body. You could be someone who works hard to maintain a healthy weight and jealous as you think those maintaining on it have it easier. There is a multitude of reasons you’d ignore rhe medical reasons and rush to label it a lifestyle choice. A multitude of reasons yoire all over this thread for a medication you don’t take.

of course it could be you’re genuinely worried about rhe population, or it could be a reason you simply don’t wish to admit. But there is no doubt there is an anger and resentment coming across in many of your posts. Not all, some are balanced, but it’s clear you’re on here for a reason other than you are simply am altruistic person worried about the health of fat people as you’re proclaiming.

This is another really strange comment. Why would anybody envy you for being overweight or for needing to take drugs to get it under control? Both being overweight and injecting drugs sound horrible, not things of which anybody would be envious! 🧐🤷‍♀️🤔

That’s true, it’s not a great landscape, but there have been some efforts to improve that.

You’re obviously not fine with it because you can’t help but come out defensive and insulting, and admit that you think people who don’t share your precise views are envious of you. At best, that’s an unusual response. I don’t know you, I don’t know anything about you, other than that you use WLIs, how on earth can I be envious of you?