What do we REALLY think about the weight loss jabs?

I definitely saw a change in older teens/young adult women over the last 10 years or so, much more fashionable to have big bums and thighs, for example.

No, clearly public health shouldn’t be informed by celebrity culture, but some of the public’s health obviously is informed by that isn’t it?

🤣 Don’t tell the VC!

You don't know much about academic research, do you?

I really really don’t think that we were in a better place for body image for girls and women before the arrival of WLI, or that they have now reversed progress and made thin the new obsession and are causing that change. Celebrity diet culture has always been there and has had its ups and downs. There has never been a pause in the endless focus on the size of women. This is just the latest focus and it will be something else soon. I also don’t think that celebrity culture is something that should inform public health.

I think these issues affect multiple groups, which is why I mentioned it. At least one pp said she was sick of being offered WLIs, and I think we were slowly getting to a better place on body image for girls, which is very clearly being undone via celebrity diet culture. That’s not the fault of obese individuals, it’s just an element of WLI availability and effectiveness that plays into culture. Unhealthy is unhealthy, if weight is the cause of it losing the weight is necessary, but for reasons I’ve said I think we’re regressing a bit to the idea of thin = healthy/morally good.

I wasn’t accusing you of saying anything, my point is that I’m not averse to anyone disagreeing however strongly, but my impression is several posters, including you at times, seem stuck on their personal experience of WLIs being positive and assume any discussion of the wider issues is critique of them/their weight/their choices. It isn’t.

How are fat and healthy people relevant then? The part where you explain why that's the case is missing. WLIs obviously aren't making or keeping people fat and healthy, and the people you were talking about who were fat and unhealthy but are now thin and unhealthy are a different group.

Odd that you addressed it to me given that I haven't called anyone a fucking idiot or said anything was offensive.

Hi, congratulations on coming off the blood preessure meds! It feels so good doesn't it? And well done on the blood test results! It's a (No pun intended!) weight off your mind isn't it? Really, it's good too hear.

Of course they do, and conversations evolve so that they are not necessarily about the exact same thing.

It was addressed to you yes, but of course you don’t have to reply.

It isn't nitpicking. Words have meanings. In the case of the word maintain, it means carry on doing something you're already doing or keep in good condition, and we've actually been doing a pretty shit job of the things you mention for a long time. What we'd have to do is get better.

And what I said is that it's better to be thin and unhealthy than fat and unhealthy. Leaving the second part of the sentence makes it less clear! It was in fact you who brought up fat and healthy, not me, and that matters because this fat and healthy group aren't relevant to the people we were discussing.

I don't think the last paragraph is addressed to me so I won't comment on that.

Im “fucking astonished” you think anyone believes you don’t care what people do with their bodies.

You’re nitpicking terms because you disagree with the perceived premise. Fine, you want me to point out that things were before WLIs (which I had thought went without saying) , so I do that and then that’s insufficient, you insist it’s not clear. It’s an internet message board, I’m not giving evidence at a select committee!

You were the person who first said it was better to be thin and unhealthy, and I disagreed with that and made the comparison with fat and healthy vs thin and unhealthy. Yet you’ve badgered me every since that it’s an example of me ‘boxing myself in’ or ‘steering the conversation’. At no point did I say or imply it was a binary choice.

I don’t understand your problem with the word maintain.

I have zero problem with debate or disagreement, or being called a fucking idiot. But some of these posts are clearly not about the subject matter and are people bringing their own defensiveness about weight/weight loss/whatever. For the avoidance of doubt, I couldn’t care less what individuals of any size choose to do with their bodies, be fat be thin be whatever you want by whatever means you like. I find it abstractly interesting what that all means, and how that affects health at a population level. I am fucking astonished that people could find that offensive.

It's the use of terms like maintain, and the initial eyes off the ball which you later agreed wasn't really accurate. The terminology you keep using doesn't make it clear enough that we weren't properly doing these things pre WLIs anyway, still aren't and that there's no evidence WLIs have impacted on that at all.

If you wrote that we needed to start doing these things in a way that could help reduce obesity, and didn't have anything to say about thin unhealthy people vs fatter healthy people as though that were the actual choice being made, I'd agree with you. And the policies you list are good and beneficial things even if they don't do anything to reduce obesity rates. We should do better at them either way.

That’s fantastic I bet you look and feel great, my health results were also good, as said uo thread I was on max of two blood pressure meds and the doctors couldn’t get my bp under control, at one point I was seen by paramedics it was so high, at the surgery too.

my blood pressure is now very healthy and I take no bp meds, and my sleep apnea which had me exhausted is gone, my cortisol levels back to healthy and my insulin response optimal.

My recent blood test results where they ran the full suite, were all smack bang in the middle of healthy, and my bmi, although obese, was only 32 when I started. My body just can’t cope with additional weight.

the bp meds were brutal , they had to keep running blood tests every three months as they were concerned my kidneys would be damaged, now the only med I take is mounjaro and it does the opposite, it improves organ function.

Sure, they’re small samples, but there’s plenty of small sample data that we do take seriously, and NICE is even explicit on accepting small scale studies in determining policy. Science is expensive, some populations are hard to access etc.

Giles Yeo who you referred to earlier has written papers on small sample studies - including single case studies - that have been widely cited for their contribution. It’s about accumulated knowledge and being proportionate in drawing conclusions. Critique the findings by all means but health science is accepting of small sample studies even if you’re not.

Hi, I hope I'm not being inapropriate here, and I can see there is a robust debate going on , but I just wanted to add my 2pence worth with regard to the jabs. I was put on Mounjaro around 12 weeks ago. It was mainly for diabetes and secondary weight loss. I am on 5mg. In that time I have lost 3stone, but I felt compelled to write because of the effect on my diabetes. I was diagnosed type 2 in 2019. I was on a lot of medication as diabetes is also affected by sleep quality (I'm an insomniac.) and stress (I have many anxiety disorders including cPTSD.). I think I was on 4 tablets for diabetes alone in one day. I've recently had a full blood test that included HbA1c, the test for blood sugar. 48 and above is diabetic, 42 and above is prediabetes. I am so pleased to say my last reading was 39!!! I've not been that low ever. It's all the mounjaro. It really changed my eating habits and how I felt about sweet stuff. The food noise is coming back now a bit but I don't want to go up another dose yet as I'm having other health issues to deal with, but the result has really spurned me on and I want to continue to eat as healthy as I can. I just want to sing it's praises and the consultant that put me on mounjaro!
Thank you for letting me interrupt you, and I hope someone finds my post encouraging.

I wasn’t steering anything - it was a point that’s now been lost, but the only relevance was that simply losing weight isn’t a panacea so it’s quite important that we collectively maintain expectations on governments to make sure green space, public transport, healthy food, etc are accessible because just reducing obesity through drugs is not enough. I genuinely do not see what’s difficult or controversial about that.

Everyone else is capable of disagreeing based on what’s written, you seem desperate to make it personal. Please stop, your behaviour is making me uncomfortable.

26lb a year. I hope it goes well for you.

I wish I was one of those people. Certainly the impact on me of the WLIs is very slight. I have average 0.5lb per week weight loss since the start of the year.

Yes, I agree you're unlikely to be able to help any further. You certainly aren't going to provide us with a cogent explanation of why you keep trying to steer conversation towards a comparison between thin and unhealthy vs fat and healthy. Not to worry though, people can join the dots.

Yes and I see the poster demands it of anyone on a diet, and is petitioning slimming world.

these jabs really bring out the worst in some people. It’s envy and resentment pure and simple and pretending it’s some altruistic care for the nation is embarassing for them,

Yes let's infantilise and restrict those stupid lazy fat people 🙄 or just bog off. No one is so interested in medication for any other disease.

Can be useful when used properly. Muscle loas is the biggest issue so patients should be told in order to use the Jabs they still have to asign to a Gym and do strength and weight training. Otherwise they will loose muscle which has massive health impacts. If they are unable to stick to that then no Jabs.

The smaller samples aren't big enough to be taken seriously. I can find you larger samples saying the opposite just on the WLI board on MN, including myself.