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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU Or will this penalise mothers more than fathers

41 replies

Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 17:21

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6lye7200g7vo

This sets out plans to cut benefits or take legal action against parents who’s children commit offences.

In my experience some of the key factors in youth offending are;

  • witnessing domestic abuse
  • lack of involvement from the father - no good male role model.

A very common pattern I see clinically is single mums raising boys who have learned behaviour and lack of respect from witnessing domestic abuse. The mother is absolutely doing her best but is often triggered by the son’s behaviour that reminds her of the domestic abuse so it’s hard to maintain a parental presence. And there NO services that specifically help with this because it’s complex work.

So once again it’s women picking up the consequences of shit male behaviour.

AIBU to think that this policy will not help these complex issues and will penalise mothers more than fathers (who quite frankly have often buggered off having caused tremendous harm)?

A stock image of a police officer with his back to the camera

Parents could face prison for child's crimes under justice reforms, minister says

The reforms to Parenting Orders could also see parents losing benefits, Jake Richards MP told the Times.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c6lye7200g7vo

OP posts:
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kittenkipping · 20/09/2026 13:08

JHound · 20/09/2026 12:48

Can you please cut and paste where I said “poor procreation choices should be a crime”?

Thanks.

Whilst you didn’t type that, the discussion and op asks the question whether the plans to cut the benefits of (ie fine) or take LEGAL ACTION (crime) against parents is a good plan, and whether it would discriminate against mother more. You responded to the OP and thus the question asked that “I think this is a great idea! (So you felt that the proposal is a good plan which would criminalise the parents) and then went on to give your reasons as to why you felt the plan was a great idea - because too many parents are “feckless” and make “poor procreation choices”. So there’s a natural extrapolation as per your statement “this is a good idea because x and y”. Of course, I don’t absolutely know your intention behind the words you typed, but I don’t think my point was wildly outlandish in relation to drawing attention to the next steps along that road. I’m sorry if I’ve offended you. Thanks

midlifenewlife · 20/09/2026 12:56

Realistically we already have this. Parenting orders already exist meaning parents have to engage in work if felt necessary. Parents benefits also get docked somewhat as they have court costs to pay every time their child ends up in court if the child is under 18 or not earning.

Also a huge proportion of kids in youth justice are in care - who gets sent to prison or prosecuted then?

if parents go to prison where will their children go?

families are often already living in poverty and struggling. I fail to see how adding to that solves the issue.

unexpectedly there are the majority of parents who want support, want their children to change. Teenagers are influenced by way more than just at home at that age, school and peers play a huge part, exploitation, relationships etc.

this money would be better spent funding more interventions to tackle the actual issue.

JHound · 20/09/2026 12:48

kittenkipping · 19/09/2026 20:26

You think poor procreation choices should be a crime?! How far does that go? Because it seems like the beginning of eugenics.

Aside from that- do you think that feckless parents will be deterred by jail time? What impact do you think a fine would have? Do you really think this policy would change behaviours, or would it drive people further into poverty? (Because as a feckless parent having a criminal record won’t help you become a better member of society, it’ll make it harder to get a job / keep your home/ get out of poverty.) The answer to this problem would surely be early intervention/ education/ support which would stop people BECOMING feckless or from making Poor choices?

Can you please cut and paste where I said “poor procreation choices should be a crime”?

Thanks.

kittenkipping · 19/09/2026 20:26

JHound · 19/09/2026 20:20

I think this is a great idea. Too many feckless parents and too many people making poor procreation choices that impact the rest of society.

You think poor procreation choices should be a crime?! How far does that go? Because it seems like the beginning of eugenics.

Aside from that- do you think that feckless parents will be deterred by jail time? What impact do you think a fine would have? Do you really think this policy would change behaviours, or would it drive people further into poverty? (Because as a feckless parent having a criminal record won’t help you become a better member of society, it’ll make it harder to get a job / keep your home/ get out of poverty.) The answer to this problem would surely be early intervention/ education/ support which would stop people BECOMING feckless or from making Poor choices?

JHound · 19/09/2026 20:20

I think this is a great idea. Too many feckless parents and too many people making poor procreation choices that impact the rest of society.

Cadeaukatze · 19/09/2026 20:17

I don't think i agree with this unless it's an extreme case like the Southport murders and even then I think the parents asked for help? And what age would be the cut-off?

But it's a really good point about single parents - why should a man bugger off and leave the woman to deal with the child(ren)? I always think this in neglect cases. Yes, a mother shouldn't leave her 3 year old child at home alone while she goes clubbing with friends but where's the father and why does he get away with it.

And tell (male) pharmacists to stop making moral judgments and give women contraception when they need it. They wouldn't refuse men condoms. If you don't like the idea, do something else as a career.

Ponoka7 · 19/09/2026 20:11

Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:09

Tell me you don’t understand the complexity of domestic abuse without telling me.

I do. I also understand vulnerability etc. Do you think just saying to women 'you crack on' makes life better for them or their children? That why early intervention works and also why we started to remove children, rather than let their Mothers keep them in abusive situations. So you don't want debate? Just that's there's one type of Mother, who is a victim?

Jellybunny98 · 19/09/2026 20:06

I think there is a huge issue widespread currently of children being out of control, and certainly beyond the control of parents. Maybe it depends where you live and what it is like in your area but in particular where my sister lives currently is just awful for it and where we live is slightly better but even here in the last month alone there have been probably 10 posts on the local facebook page of kids setting fires destroying the park & bins (caught on cctv of a neighbouring house, faces out, parents tagged in the comments and just replying with “what he does outside of this house isn’t my business” style comments, kids riding around the streets on the illegal bikes going through red lights, over zebra crossings, 2 young lads have died on these bikes over the summer just in our village- most of these kids are 12-16, their parents are the ones who bought them the bloody bikes.

All that is to say, I get it. I get why people want this, I imagine in our village lots of people will be happy and excited to see this proposal and I understand why- we/people are seeing kids behave terribly here and parents either can’t be arsed or are facilitating it.

But, I’m not really sure how this will work. Actually jailing parents wouldn’t really help any children, cutting benefits doesn’t just impact the adult it also means less money for food/heating/clothes/rent for the whole family and I’m not sure “make your kids behave or you’ll starve” is the message to send either, in real terms this will just be a case of having to attend more parenting classes which don’t have a great success rate either.

I don’t know what the answer is, agree with others saying this is an area that needs a total reform from the ground up, with lots of funding, resources etc.

Marycontrarygarden · 19/09/2026 20:01

GardenCovent · 19/09/2026 19:58

Exactly, this is why I can’t see how it’s workable, if there is a punishment it should be both parents but i can’t see how it is fair to punish the parent who has brought up the child but the one who has pissed off gets off scot free.

I see the result of Dads doing this every day in my school.

GardenCovent · 19/09/2026 19:58

Marycontrarygarden · 19/09/2026 19:51

What do you do if the Dad has pissed off back to Jamaica?

Exactly, this is why I can’t see how it’s workable, if there is a punishment it should be both parents but i can’t see how it is fair to punish the parent who has brought up the child but the one who has pissed off gets off scot free.

Octavia64 · 19/09/2026 19:57

The Southport attacks were committed by a teen whose parents:

knew that he had a bow and arrow, a sledgehammer and signed for the delivery of a machete he ordered

stopped him getting a taxi to his former school with a can of petrol when he said he was going to burn it down

The Southport inquiry reported that there were no ways that state organisations notably social care could have prevented the attacks and noted that Axel’s autism was used as an excuse for violent behaviour that was not referred to the police.

however the inquiry also said that the parents knew Axel was dangerous and violent and was planning an attack and if they had informed the police or any other state agency then the attack would have been prevented.

a number of recommendations were made by the inquiry some involving social care (in particular there is a split between autism support services and services like prevent which aim to stop domestic terrorism and Axel should have been referred to prevent but was mostly referred to autism support services.

however his parents were clearly felt by the inquiry to be morally liable as they knew he was planning an attack and did not inform the police because they had various concerns about Axel being taken into residential care.

many autistic teens are taken into residential care due to the impact of their violence on their family but this is the first time an autistic teen known to suppprt services has deliberately planned a terrorist attack on non relatives - it’s normally family violence and the focus is on keeping the child with autism safe not protecting the victims of their violence.

Marycontrarygarden · 19/09/2026 19:51

GardenCovent · 19/09/2026 17:52

When I heard this this morning my first thought was it’s ridiculous but then I hope it’s both parents, even if the parent is absent the blame should not fall on the present parent.
I don’t think it is workable though and can’t see it coming to anything

What do you do if the Dad has pissed off back to Jamaica?

Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:39

superchick · 19/09/2026 19:36

I think the numbers of misbehaving youths that have their mums financial situation in mind when they are out terrorising communities is vanishingly small. And the idea that parents have any real control over children who have this mindset once they are 13+ is laughable. Families need stronger interventions at much younger ages to prevent the issues occurring.

First three years are key.

OP posts:
Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:38

Octavia64 · 19/09/2026 18:10

We don’t have space in prisons for people who commit actual crimes much less all their parents.

it does seem to have come off the back of the Southport case however which is very much not a DA situation.

I don’t know much about out that case but wasn’t it organised crime related?

OP posts:
superchick · 19/09/2026 19:36

Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:30

I guess the threat of it might have that imos t for a few. Fair enough.

I think the numbers of misbehaving youths that have their mums financial situation in mind when they are out terrorising communities is vanishingly small. And the idea that parents have any real control over children who have this mindset once they are 13+ is laughable. Families need stronger interventions at much younger ages to prevent the issues occurring.

Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:36

AmnesiacsDream · 19/09/2026 19:15

I know care is a poor alternative to family life in most instances, but here we’re talking about families where the state is intending removing the parents anyway - so it seems like a complete mismatch of approaches. Don’t place the kids in care because parents are better than the alternative but take the parents away because they’ve done a bad job? It seems fundamentally flawed. Nevertheless I think we need a better way of addressing kids in families like these. (Edit to say : that is I agree we need significant well resourced early intervention)

Edited

In Sweden there is a model where the parents and children go into foster care so they can all experience a health stable family life. Such a hard thing for the foster carers to do, requiring very high level supervision and support but what a brilliant idea.

OP posts:
Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:34

JLou08 · 19/09/2026 18:26

Do you know a lot of children involved in crime, particularly county lines, are children who have been removed from their parents already? Putting a child in care rarely improves their life, that's why it is an absolute last resort.
There needs to be better early intervention, and I know schools are for education but they are also places where children spend a huge chunk of their time. We need more pastoral support in schools, better training and accommodations made for children with SEND and/or experiencing abuse, positive male role models, extra-curricular programmes to meet their needs. There needs to be an extra pot for funding it because it is social care more than education. It would be expensive to get it going but it could save a fortune in the long term if the cycle of abuse/criminal behaviour/unemployment/poor physical and mental health is broken. Putting children in care very rarely breaks that cycle. I've worked with many adopted adults who can't function. They've not developed a sense of identity and have unseen trauma from the separation from their birth family.
Generation upon generation of the same issues. Except it's getting even bigger now because we're not meeting the needs of children with learning difficulties who are forced into an intensive education system that's whole focus is academic results.

I worked with children looked after for around 10 years and I completely agree. And you meet with the 14 year old who has been caught carrying a knife and then you read his chronology and what he’s seen and experienced and you think ‘well of course he thinks carrying a knife is sensible’. You have to ask ‘why’. Why do they do XYZ. You have to understand the history. And the earlier we intervene the better.

OP posts:
Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:30

Minasama · 19/09/2026 18:22

You may well be right OP. It would be best of all if dads behaved.
Perhaps some low level criminals would be guilted into behaving properly if their mum was going to lose her benefits? Perhaps there are enough families where this may make a difference to make it worthwhile?

Edited

I guess the threat of it might have that imos t for a few. Fair enough.

OP posts:
Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:29

kittenkipping · 19/09/2026 19:17

This post nails it. The systematic failures and generational trauma that feeds criminality will not in any way be solved by imposing either fines nor jail time upon parents. Just look at the prison population- in which the stats show that people who were sexually and physically abused as children, foster children, illiterate and mentally ill people are wildly overrepresented- do we really think that fining their parents when they began these behaviours as children would have helped? It would simply feed the poverty machine and feedback cycle into further criminality imo.

Thanks for putting it far more articulately than me!

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Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:28

Weeellokthen · 19/09/2026 18:32

Ok, so what do you suggest we do with the many many feral children we have? If you have 30yrs experience what do you think needs to happen turn this tide?

Well. Thank you for asking.

Firstly we need to front load services and input more pre natally and in the first three years when so much happens to the the developing child’s physiology and brain development. There are evidence based approaches that can support parents to acknowledge and process their own childhood trauma and build their ability to parent in ways that support secure attachments.

I would put in services aimed at reducing all ACES - Adverse Childhood Experiences.

I would build on what Wales is doing with aiming to be a trauma informed nation. It’s early days but a good direction of travel.

I would reform the current ELSA programmes in schools and have interventions delivered by therapists supervised by qualified Child Psychologists. Id pump money into education to make schools smaller and with smaller class sizes - it’s too hard for schools to build good relationships with all kids when class sizes are so big. I’d lessen government curriculum setting, make teaching qualifications masters level and pay teachers more. Just one good relationship with a caring adult can reduce the negative impact of trauma on children. A sense of belonging in school can minimise toxic effects from home.

Id put more money into statutory services around domestic abuse from education to refuges. I’d have a Domestic Abuse register similar to the sex offenders register to build on Claire’s Law.

I would criminalise fathers who deliberately dodge paying their way. I’d give CMS more powers.

I would put more resources into prevention and early intervention in young offenders. Trauma informed approaches.

id put money into Children’s services and make social work training masters level, pay them more and build therapeutic services within the Local Authority.

I’d fund all this by taxing anyone with over 10 million in wealth a 5% tax. This would also help redistribute wealth and reduce social inequality which is known to then increase mental health and reduce crime (the greater the gap between the rich and poor, the worse a society’s mental health and the higher crime rates are).

It’s back of a fag packet stuff but cones from a fair understanding of the issues. I’m not an expert but have expertise. If I was a white, middle class man and not a fifty year old woman I’d say I was an expert without doubt.

OP posts:
MeowDoku · 19/09/2026 19:19

Guess who receives the vast majority of convictions/sentences for failure to secure attendance at school......
It's not daddy

kittenkipping · 19/09/2026 19:17

superchick · 19/09/2026 18:23

A lot more women than men get prosecuted for failure to ensure school attendance. As we know there are multiple reasons why children might not attend school and prosecuting a child's mother is very unlikely to resolve any of them. This seems like a policy of the same ilk.

This post nails it. The systematic failures and generational trauma that feeds criminality will not in any way be solved by imposing either fines nor jail time upon parents. Just look at the prison population- in which the stats show that people who were sexually and physically abused as children, foster children, illiterate and mentally ill people are wildly overrepresented- do we really think that fining their parents when they began these behaviours as children would have helped? It would simply feed the poverty machine and feedback cycle into further criminality imo.

AmnesiacsDream · 19/09/2026 19:15

JLou08 · 19/09/2026 18:26

Do you know a lot of children involved in crime, particularly county lines, are children who have been removed from their parents already? Putting a child in care rarely improves their life, that's why it is an absolute last resort.
There needs to be better early intervention, and I know schools are for education but they are also places where children spend a huge chunk of their time. We need more pastoral support in schools, better training and accommodations made for children with SEND and/or experiencing abuse, positive male role models, extra-curricular programmes to meet their needs. There needs to be an extra pot for funding it because it is social care more than education. It would be expensive to get it going but it could save a fortune in the long term if the cycle of abuse/criminal behaviour/unemployment/poor physical and mental health is broken. Putting children in care very rarely breaks that cycle. I've worked with many adopted adults who can't function. They've not developed a sense of identity and have unseen trauma from the separation from their birth family.
Generation upon generation of the same issues. Except it's getting even bigger now because we're not meeting the needs of children with learning difficulties who are forced into an intensive education system that's whole focus is academic results.

I know care is a poor alternative to family life in most instances, but here we’re talking about families where the state is intending removing the parents anyway - so it seems like a complete mismatch of approaches. Don’t place the kids in care because parents are better than the alternative but take the parents away because they’ve done a bad job? It seems fundamentally flawed. Nevertheless I think we need a better way of addressing kids in families like these. (Edit to say : that is I agree we need significant well resourced early intervention)

Immakingtime · 19/09/2026 19:09

Ponoka7 · 19/09/2026 18:26

Some of us live amongst parents who don't give a shit. However, like school absence fines, the wrong people will get targeted, while those who haven't parented even good enough, will have a million excuses made for them. I agree DV is a factor, but when you have a Mother who isn't picky about who she moves in and then eventually has another baby, she's partly responsible for the outcome. People have lost faith in our government, police and whole system. They dud what they wanted, so some sectors are doing the same. We need early intervention. It's another thing that the Torys let go to shit.

Tell me you don’t understand the complexity of domestic abuse without telling me.

OP posts:
Weeellokthen · 19/09/2026 18:32

Ok, so what do you suggest we do with the many many feral children we have? If you have 30yrs experience what do you think needs to happen turn this tide?