To feel relieved that flexible working might be on the agenda again?

I’m afraid I’m in the group that wants to see more of a return to the office. I find that new members of staff and junior members of staff take far too long to get up to speed. Some of them are never as efficient as the members of staff who they have replaced. To be fair to them, it isn’t always their fault, some of it is because they have nobody to learn from because everybody else is also working from home.
Human beings need interaction and you can’t get that at the end of a Teams link.

I mean, employing lazy people who need micromanaging in the first place is still a management issue isn't it?

And comparing looking after a puppy whilst working at home to looking after children whilst working from home is absurd.

But you’ve demonstrated proper management in your example. They were taking care of children while working, that’s unacceptable, so you brought them back to the office. That’s totally reasonable and a proper way to deal with it. The management failure comes about when people are not working because they can’t be arsed or they’re looking after children or a puppy or whatever, but their manager does nothing about it. Or the manager goes “well I don’t know who’s working and who isn’t so everyone back to the office because I’m incapable of judging people on their output”.

But that's a management failure, not a flexible working failure.

It's not a failure of management. To say it is 'a management failure' that some people are lazy is just a complete cop out. It's much easier to monitor output when someone is there, so it is a flexible working issue. You can't bullshit your way out if your management team are at the desk right next to you - most of the time you have no choice but to work.

We see too many people on MN saying 'i'll get a puppy, I WFH 4 days a week it's fine' completely failing to understand that's not how it works. Or, 'i'm providing childcare to my children who are 4 and 5 whilst I WFH.' There's literally at least one thread a week about it.

The problem with flexible working is people abuse it.

I ended up making multiple people in my department return to the office 5 days a week. Why? Because they were doing childcare in working hours - that's completely unacceptable.

Flexible working only works if employees understand they still need to work. It's not a chance to save on childcare, or to do your laundry, or to raise a sodding puppy.

Agreed.

I work with a guy who is never online, never responsive, slow, generally a pain in the arse.
He is in the office 3 days a week and is not better on those days. He’s just as useless, while also being more actively annoying to those around him. He’s not suddenly a diligent worker because he’s in the office.

If people are taking the piss it’s poor Management. If they are piss takers, they would be doing it regardless of where they were.

Completely disagree @ExtraOnions . I have literally seen people who hide for much longer than they would do if they were in plain sight.

People who go off for two and a half hours because their mother needs to be taken to hospital. They don't book leave, they don't work later to compensate, they just feel entitled that they can be "flexible".

Folk who have busy childcare and collection commitments, who block out their calendar in so many places that it's impossible to hold regular meetings.

There's dozens upon dozens of examples I could offer. But so much of it comes from the fact that once someone is in their home environment, they feel psychologically that "they' call the shots, and that the only metric that matters is "judge me on my output", irrespective of their availability to actually support team mates and collaborate with others.

And you say "poor Management" (sic) but come on, so many managers are complicit in the UK because they want the same 'benefits' and don't care.

Don't get me started on the folk who refuse to ever turn their camera on because "they can be just as productive without it on" and "no one will get to see my home etc"

If people are taking the piss it’s poor Management. If they are piss takers, they would be doing it regardless of where they were.

Since the changes were forced, via Covid, I’ve been able to employ Disabled people who struggle to make it in the office, people who live in more deprived areas who don’t live near an office or who limited transport option, offer condensed hours / flexible working patterns, to people with caring responsibilities.

Flexible working can be a real game-changer to get people into employment, who otherwise would face barriers.

Economically it can also mean that communities, can now have higher (any) earning people living there, and that spending power is not just in City Centres and traditional commuter towns

The Daily Mail etc seems furious about it, I’m guessing it’s because landlord rents are down in the City.

I get so much more done on my wfh days, without distractions from people constantly wanting to chat.

I support you with this @winterwonder1

BUT -

I have dozens of examples of people who I have interacted with in British public life who should not be allowed to work from home, or otherwise should be given training on how to manage their workloads and actually provide the service:

• Before 2021 I used to call a hospital's consultant reception for my daughter's long term condition. You would get through unless the line was engaged. 0900 - 16:00. Now since a few years ago, all I get it a long automated message "we are sometimes working from home" (sometimes! it's always) "and therefore I won't be able to answer. Please leave a message and I will call you back". I have left messages before, and never had a call back. I have complained, but nothing changes

• Call centres for a major telecommunications company which I had the misfortune of needing to call for my billing, They're using some useless voice over internet protocol thing, because their staff work from home. You can hear the kids in the background (which is fine). However the voice over internet problem means every time I say something, I have to pause and wait 5 seconds before they. reply, as there's a delay in the line. Makes normal conversation impossible

• Worse, even people in my company (other teams not mine, but I've fed back) have been completely absent when I ask a query on Teams. "Away" status for 3 hours, not replying at all even though they see it is urgent, because they're just not there

So yeah it's easy to breezily say "I'm not talking about people taking the piss", @winterwonder1 , but there are SO many people who do, that I for one would welcome a bit more return to the office if it actually led to some standards being reintroduced and people doing their job.

Completely agree. Not only carers - also those who can't afford to move to areas like London, can stay living in areas with cheaper house prices and commute in on odd days they are needed. It's been transformative for us.

I think one look at the people leading the charge back to the office tells you everything you need to know - Nigel Farage and Alan Sugar…

Totally agree. My best team member works entirely remotely and needs to do the school run most days. She’s worth her weight in gold though.

When I’m in the office it’s impossible for me to get in before 9 and I have to leave at 5 on the dot. On home working days I frequently start at 8.30 and finish at 5.30. I bet this is not unusual.

I totally agree, OP. Parents and disabled people especially benefit from flexible working and it’s such a retrograde step to try to move away from that.