Archbishop of Canterbury withdraws award from Muslim cleric who praised Osama bin Laden

I'm not going to lie, when I first saw that photo of him receiving the award I thought there were just two people in the picture. Didn't even clock the wife. She's been made invisible by that shroud she wears.

I was inconsolable yesterday..with rage .
I finally plucked up the courage to write to the Bishop of Derbys office.
Basically the announcement on Lambeth House website shows no remorse, no accountability and zero humility.
Ive asked the acting Bishop to raise this at Synod.
Will it happen....the hell it will !!!!
I feel after a lifetime of Anglo Catholisism I'm done.
The church represented a safe haven, a place which would stand up for right and truth in a world of deceit. No more.
I am having to shift myself to a Protestant church....no drama, but not what I am used to and face the heartbreak of leaving those I love behind. I'm praying for guidance but this woman is poison

WTAF! This kind of behaviour from the left, and yes I would consider them extreme, will hasten the end of our civilised society as we know it.

Your fantasies about how engaged I am with conspiracy theories is adorable.

I think you know that this is not the point I was making. I was wondering whether Sadiq Khan would publicly praise a rave in a mosque.

And I think you know full well that a whole body covering, although maybe a choice for a woman, actually has the purpose of fending off the male gaze. And that women not dressed modestly are considered at best lesser and at worst whores. A child in dd’s yr 5 class began to be fully covered, head to toe - ie at puberty a girl is considered to be sexually alluring.

Those (non-observant Muslims) who agree with all this are either fools or anti-establishment agitators.

Don't forget lefty Williams before Welby.

I agree. When I think back to those (carefree!) days, all the students just got on with things. The Muslim parents had chosen a single-sex school for their daughters, but that was as far as any obvious dogma went. It was much more relaxed.

Our society was much more unified then - but now we seem to glory in divisiveness.

I absolutely knew someone would say that. Firstly, women's dress is not mandated by law or state punishment in western democracies.

Secondly, where dress codes do apply for work etc, these are the sort of simple expectations that would exist everywhere in the world, and where they exist there are similar rules for men. If people are expected to dress smartly, then both men and women are.

And none of this is even remotely comparable to Islamic 'modest' dress requirements where - although there is technically a modest dress for men too - the rules for women are much more restricting and severe, even without niqab, You only need to see a conservatively dressed muslim woman walk next to her husband on hot day to see this.

And further more, the reason behind them are differently. Schools and workplaces may have dress codes for reasons of appearing professional, or reducing bullying ( at schools). No nightwear is about basic standards of decency such as not announcing through your PJs that you have not bothered to wash before you went out. Islamic dress is about women not appearing attractive to men so that men don't sin by having sex with them and go to hell. Sexual morality is rigidly enforced in Islam.

And any attempts to pretend that Tesco saying ' No PJs' or a workplace wanting you to look professional is in anyway comparable to Iranian women being attacked and brutalised by the state for not wearing a hijab or women being completely invisible under a burqa in seering Afghan heat, is never going to have any credibility.

There are dress codes though in the West.
Tesco have had to issue a no nightwear rule, schools do the same, workplace rules, places of worship - nearly all aimed at women. That isn't the point here, but just wanted to point it out. Muslim women are always accused of wearing their dress due to being forced by men and it isn't true. It's very unfeminist to think that a woman is reduced to her outer clothing and cannot form an opinion or assert a decision by herself. It happens all the time though and it's most tiresome when a stranger insists that you are oppressed.

If you say so; although the fact you seem het up makes me think you know you're on a bit of a sticky wicket with that.

And no western democratic countries where a dress code is imposed.

And there can be huge cultural pressure, including violence, even where there is no law to follow Islamic dress requirements. Even western converts to Islam who have an online presence will talk about the huge online pressure they get to wear hijab.

You are right that OP does not know that woman in the photo was required to dress like that.

I would say though that the niqabi muslim women I have heard give their reasons for wearing niqab ( its a spiritual thing that brings me closer to God, it means I am seen as a person etc) give very different reasons from those I have heard from islamic cleric in muslim countries (women cover to stop me committing zina - which is fornication or adultery - and going to hell).

Has anybody read Submission by Michel Houellebecq? That's pretty much what's happening here.

There are very, very few countries where a dress code is imposed. Regardless, the case in point is the OP stating that the wife of the former award winner is wearing niqab because her husband made me. That is a complete assumption on her part.

Its worth noting that the indigenous people of the land are not just the Jews but also the Samaritans, Kurds, Druze, Yazidis who have tended not to do well under arab muslim expansion and conquering of their lands, or in Yazidi case more recently, under Islamic state.

Which history book did you use to derive the 20% figure from?

Agree.

And some are paddling towards losing the plot rather than just sitting there.

Did anyone see the Oxford union debate of the motion which was something like ' Is this House right to be suspicious of Islam?' and a Muslim speaker AGAINST the motion actually used Osama Bin Laden as an example of why we should NOT be suspicious of Islam. I am not making that up.

Best summary of a post ever 😂

He was given the award but then when it was pointed out that he is a terrorist loving fuckwit they took the award back.

Read my post again. I did not say ' so you are saying' . I explicitly asked what are you saying.

A poster stated that ME used to be Christian and you asked if she had any source for this.

I replied to that.

Though Muslim women being free to dress as they see choose is a luxury more likely to be experienced in a non-Muslim country than a Muslim one.

Put the goalposts back. Read what I wrote again and stop with the “so what you’re saying is…”

I questioned a very specific claim made by OP.

No, I don’t deny any history linked to Islam and conquest but I have no idea why it’s implied that is unique to Islam. That’s something the world’s two largest faiths have in common.

This. It’s a weird form of paternalism that many women’s rights activists show to wards muslim women where they assume they are all oppressed / thick / a combination of the above.

There are all kinds of views on attire within the faith. Same as with hijab. I am sure there are women out there whose manner of presentation is imposed on them by their husband. But many others who aren’t. Irrespective of faith.