To think people should not use 'we put pets to sleep' as an argument to allow assisted dying?

Totally agree.
My DM had no quality of life and would state this herself. She was fed up and in pain and I believe had she had the choice would have chosen to end her life. We dont allow animals to suffer but people....tough shit!

I think people are talking in terms of legality here. People are treated like humans (which yes, are biologically animals), as opposed to being treated like every other non-human animal on the planet.

"...and people aren't animals."

It's shocking to see how many seemingly educated adults believe this.... People ARE animals.

As a former nurse I can’t tell you how many times I’ve cared for a dying patient and thought to myself that if they were a much-loved pet we wouldn’t let them suffer like this.

Sometimes life is awful.

I do have to wonder how so many people manage to fumble suicide, when so many also manage to commit it – and it's not particular difficult to find a foolproof method, which obviously I won't discuss on here. Children following TikTok challenges have managed to accidentally kill themselves (tragically) using suicide methods.

Anyway, yes, that is terrible. I suppose in similar situations, the best thing to do is to stop accepting medical care, and eating, and get medical marijuana. Just stay high af to ease any suffering, and (at that frailty) it likely wouldn't take more than a month or two for the strain of starvation to put an end to things. But then of course, I suppose that requires them to have the cognitive faculties to do that.

Really the only option to help in situations like that is to change the law so you can kill people who can't give legal consent (due to their decline), which seems very dodgy ground.

Yes, but again – you can have another baby, but you can't have another life.

And is it true that abortion doesn't affect those things? I'm not so sure. In this case, I think the value of abortion outweighs the flow on effects that we may need to mitigate, but I'm not so sure in the case of assisted suicide – at least where a person is not imminently terminal.

If you're fine with people being able to murder others, there's little point in talking to you sensibly on the issue.

I can only presume you're also in favour of the death penalty, in order to be consistent with your views? Less value on life, letting 'sensible people' decide life and death, not needing consent to kill someone... I can see a certain pragmatism to that – but not to be in favour of one and not the other.

I'm in constant pain and have no quality of life, I'm in a wheelchair and my life now compared to what it was is bloody depressing, if it wasn't for the life of my family I would of wanted assisted dying as I'm just a shell

Do you see what I'm doing? I used 'killing' because it seemed the most neutral but accurate term.

My point is that either you need to take responsibility for that while you can, or change the laws so that it becomes acceptable to kill people who may not want to be killed, and can't consent to it.

Quite frankly anyone who says that their pet cannot communicate what they want does not deserve to have a pet.

In the UK -

"In a new review of more than 100 UK cases, we find that despite claims: ‘mercy killings’ are not the wanted, ‘hastened’ deaths that need assisted dying. They are overwhelmingly violent domestic homicides of women, by men: and show that our society is still poor at detecting and responding to domestic abuse. How will these men who kill behave when the state offers lawful death ?
Our society is too tolerant of the killings of disabled, elderly and infirm women, in leaving the ’clear and bright line’ that killing is wrong: ’mercy killers’ walk free from court. We fear further softening of the prohibition on femicide, as borne out in Canada."

Safeguarding Women in Assisted Dying — The Other Half

You really think the uk can be trusted not to fuck it up?

What is to say that if the UK allowed AD, then it would follow suit?
Other places have AD and have not gone down that same path.

Shockingly, it has taken Canada only 10 years to get to this point.

As has been discussed, the Canadians are not just killing people with terminal illnesses. They're killing people who are just ill or disabled, and on the quiet they're apparently killing people because they're unhappy due to poverty or loneliness, or who don't know what to do because they have nowhere to live and the state doesn't provide. And from next year we can expect them to kill people who are depressed or suffer from some kind of trauma.

"an increasing number of people are turning to assisted suicide as a method of liberation from poverty or other social injustices. Stronger social safety nets and more well-developed policies regarding the uses of MAiD are needed to curb this disturbing trend. As Canadians, we need to ensure that not only do we have the right to die with dignity, but to live in dignity as well."

How Canada’s MAiD Laws Leaves Vulnerable Individuals Open to Abuse – Campus UNICEF

cats, dogs etc have no way, by definition, of understanding the situation or communicating what they would want.

Your point, then, is because people can communicate their wish, we should refuse it? I am against assisted suicide and even I think your argument is crackers.

I don’t understand why people are surprised the rates are high in Canada.

Medicine can prolong lives, but that doesn’t mean better quality of life.

That is really frightening. I didn’t know the rates were so high in Canada.

It's not just terminally ill people, unfortunately. People are being assisted to die due to poverty or loneliness, among many other unconvincing reasons.

"A 2021 University of Guelph study found that during COVID, some disabled people were encouraged to explore MAiD due to lack of resources. And in private leaked MAiD assessor and provider forums, MAiD providers have described ending lives where suffering due to poverty, loneliness, or obesity was driving the request for MAiD."

This looks like a serious and knowledgeable report, worth a read -
Bridging the Gaps - Legislative and practice problems in Canada’s MAiD regime: Ramona Coelho and David Shannon | Macdonald-Laurier Institute

That doesn't make any sense. If 50% of people receive poor treatment from the NHS, and 50% receive good treatment, then the NHS is drastically failing. And don't pretend that it's all subjective, with some complaining about the same treatment as others are delighted with. People are on waiting lists for years. In a recent case a surgeon literally operated on the wrong body parts. People in their 80s have been lying injured on the floor all night in their own urine, waiting for an ambulance.

But back to Canada. It's a great example of how, once the law exists, it is very quickly expanded. Originally, it only covered people with terminal illnesses. A few years later, it was expanded to cover people with "grievous" but non-terminal conditions. Apparently this is interpreted as including people who suffer from diabetes or "frailty", for example. Next year they expect it to be expanded to include people with mental health conditions. Over 5% of deaths in Canada are now "assisted". Worryingly, there are very different figures for different regions - Quebec is very high.

But why are the lives of those suffering and wanting to end the suffering less worth than the lives of those who might be coerced?

My dad, mentally sound but bedridden and catheterised in a nursing home frequently made the point that he wouldn’t let a sick dog be in his position. Our lives are our own to end.

What evidence is there of instances where terminally ill people have been coerced into VAD in countries that currently allow it? I’ve not seen any news articles. Surely cases would make headlines around the world?

ETA @Ponoka7 that’s really heartbreaking.

Yes, in Canada is a big issue at the moment.
https://care.org.uk/news/2024/10/poor-lonely-and-homeless-opting-for-assisted-death-in-canada
https://righttolife.org.uk/news/woman-with-disability-opts-out-of-assisted-suicide-after-she-receives-funds-to-help-with-her-condition

I'm just as worried about people being encouraged to die in order save the state money in looking after them. For example, in Canada a disabled veteran was refused a chairlift in her house, and invited to sign up for assisted dying instead.