To think people should not use 'we put pets to sleep' as an argument to allow assisted dying?

Thank you for clarifying further. It's a huge shame that fear of being sued can prevent people from spending their last days in a more comfortable state, and really not acceptable.

I often find that people who are against assisted dying are very keen on improved palliative care which often seems to equate to enough drugs to keep you under and pain free until death essentially involuntary euthanasia.

No, palliative care with pain relief while in the active dying stage is not involuntary euthanasia. Involuntary euthanasia is just a fancy way of saying murder.

I just think we should be honest about it and give people the agency to choose.
People already have agency to end their lives. Assisted dying isn’t about agency or choice, it is about requiring another person, an NHS employee, to help a person take their own life or help state/abusers take the life of a vulnerable person.

This is a proven outcome. Innocent people will be coerced into assisted dying. The requirements for it will be relaxed. The law as currently written is open to people being euthanised without their consent- the Leadbetter committee rejected all proposed safeguards.

The rules are already very relaxed in that situation. If you give someone enough drugs to kill them then provided your intention was to provide pain relief then its legally permissible. An issue is that doctors tend to be scared of being sued so tend to veer towards conservative pain management.

The surface issue of suffering aside,

It's not a surface issue, it's the whole point of the debate!

Yes I have, and also heart failure. Both my parents and both peacefully, fortunately. It is possible to have good end of life care and a peaceful death in the current system.

I do think there are parallels in that we love our pets and don’t want them to suffer unnecessarily. I’m in favour of assisted dying being an option for those that would choose it.

I often find that people who are against assisted dying are very keen on improved palliative care which often seems to equate to enough drugs to keep you under and pain free until death essentially involuntary euthanasia.

I’m not arguing against it, there comes a time when you can not effectively remove pain from a patient and so you remove a patient from pain. I just think we should be honest about it and give people the agency to choose. Yes at the end we can give you drugs that will hasten your death but also if there’s a time beforehand that your suffering becomes unbearable then this is an option.

Once surprisingly fell out with a devout Christian over a similar argument. I do not belong to any religion but class myself spiritual . I make no difference between what is defined as human and animals in my eyes they are both animals they both have emotions and feelings and love for there family and friends so both should not be allowed to suffer if there’s are means to facilitate that.

Having watched my friend die with cancer slowly and painfully where the fear of the end hindered his enjoyment of what he had left I can’t and never will see why the law as it is exists .

I didn’t make that comparison. I am against comparing pets to humans.

In one case, a person chooses to end another creature's life without their permission. In the other case, a person makes an informed decision that they want to end their own life.

The surface issue of suffering aside, these things are very different at their core. I don't think it's relevant to argue that because people are able to euthanise their pets, humans should be able to have assisted suicide. There are much more well-reasoned, compelling arguments in favour of assisted suicide than 'well, people can put down the animals they own', because people can also breed those animals, sterilise those animals, and euthanise them even when they're healthy, or have a curable ailment.

A person deciding to euthanise a suffering animal isn't at all comparable to someone who is terminally ill wanting to end their own suffering.

I disagree. The rational of both is to end suffering. I think they are highly comparable.

Came to say the same!

It's worse IMO we let people suffer so badly.

Agreed. Palliative care needs to be improved.

I do think that when someone is terminally ill, the rules around how much pain relief they're allowed should be relaxed. The topic of assisted suicide aside, the patient should be able to determine how much pain relief they're given to alleviate their suffering, and if that ends up hastening their death then so be it.

Of course, with some cancers and conditions, pain can't be effectively relieved, but many can. I know my nana certainly had discomfort when she died, but she wasn't in more than mild pain and went very peacefully - but then, she had private palliative care.

No you’re missing the point that no one is going to turn up at someone’s house and put them to sleep like an animal, and purposely drawing that part of the comparison is a false syllogism. The point of the comparison is that this way out is available to pets but not humans. Obviously humans would need to consent, that’s why legislation is taking so long, so your whole argument and that of OP is frankly preposterous and I think you must know it. And to answer your other point palliative care isn’t a magic wand. We cannot give everyone a pain free death regardless of condition. We do not have the technology.

Actually, we do let pets suffer. The pet is not pts until its owner is good and ready. Many pets suffer horrendously in the meantime.

I think with animals, we free ourselves of the pain of watching something that we love suffer. Is it merciful? Yes. Is it what they would want? Quite probably not, as animals don't have the ability to conceptualise the idea of death ending their suffering, and they're driven by the instinct to survive.

I don't really think it's about treating animals with more dignity, as we also sterilise animals and breed them for our own whims, and that's not dignified at all.

A person deciding to euthanise a suffering animal isn't at all comparable to someone who is terminally ill wanting to end their own suffering.

we make people with the same conditions carry on with no relief.

No we do not. We offer relief and this palliative care is what should be improved.

I agree OP. I think people are missing the point that it is about true, informed and freely given consent. The usual arguments of we don’t let animals suffer so why let people suffer ignore the problems in that statement where letting requires ownership or life and death authority over the animal or person in question. In addition, it presumes that assisted dying is the only way to alleviate suffering and only way to have a good death.

Agree 👍

Hard disagree. We don't let pets suffer, but we make people with the same conditions carry on with no relief. Even if they want to choose death, we force them to suffer. Why do you think it's ok to keep people in pain, but think it's cruel to do the same to animals?

I have a very close friend with MND ,it is an evil,unforgiving disease . I want and hope that her death is pain/ stress free and dignified. Am truly heartbroken 💔 Am not convinced that the NHS can ensure this!

It's the fact the being is loved and vulnerable, so in that way they're the same. We might use reins on an animal or child, but not an adult-it's about what is sensible, caring and appropriate. Just as most people wouldn't want any creature, human or animal, to suffer. So an elderly/ill person in agony is like a pet in that they are unable to control or end their own suffering, so we have a duty like a caring pet owner does, and just as you can be prosecuted for keeping an animal alive, suffering, most people feel that a person who has said they don't want to be forced into suffering shouldn't be made to, and we should no longer get away with not allowing our human loved ones teh same rights as pets.

We grant animals this great kindness because we love them. There are people we also love and want to help in the same way.

Posted twice idk why

Have you seen someone die of cancer? We give more dignity to animals than we do humans

Exactly that

when my mum was dying I thought - this is ridiculous. She’s actively dying, she isn’t going to recover or get better. Why can’t she be helped along? Why does she have to go through this dying process? It honestly makes no sense to me that if someone is actively dying, we just… watch?