Good afternoon shecanbe. Let me address your response to my post point by point.
"I can't speak for people in white middle class villages like Piddington. I live in London - our family is a mix of Indian, Spanish , Iranian, British. Not voting Reform does not make you 'ultra liberal elite.'"
Nowhere in my post (including the quote you used in your response) did I say not voting for reform equated to the "ultra liberal elite".
"Nobody voted for unchecked mass immigration, did they? Who voted for that?"
Well, for one, the people of Piddington and plenty of our self proclaimed betters that exploited the decency and stupidity of the majority of the population and then resorted to egregious bullying and intimidation when the usual tropes about the huge benefits of mass immigration lost their veneer.
I agree that voters (espicially working class voters) were utterly betrayed by all parties as exemplified by the huge mandate given to the conservatives after brexit that resulted in the infamous "Boris wave".
"What do you actually expect voters to do when there are only a handful of parties to choose from and realistically, none of them are going to be able to 'stop the boats' are they? Because it's virtually impossible. Even Reform can't stop the boats, despite what they may claim."
I do not accept that it's impossible to stop the boats. If we ceased to incentivise people coming here, then that would be an excellent start. Stop ALL benefits to anyone that is not a British citizen, that includes access to our health services. If pulling your own teeth out is fine and dandy for our pensioners that have paid their taxes all their lives, then I don't see the human rights argument for giving dental care to young illegal migrants, or in fact any migrants at all.
To be honest the boats are not the biggest immigration problem this country faces, in reality it is only a tiny percentage but it's the most visible so it's the one people latch on to. We need a total overhaul of our immigration and asylum policy. It would mean radical change but I believe we need radical change. All that is needed is the will to enact that change.
"People in London are not going to be particularly shocked about immigration in the way people in other areas may be because obviously, there are people from all around the world here for all manner of reasons every second of every day."
Well, that's possibly because London has already been ethnically cleansed of working class Londoners. In 1961 the demographic of London was 97.7% white British, in 2021 it was 36.8% and continues to fall. If that were a statistic of another country and the demographics of ethnicities were reversed, there would be no debate about it being utterly scandalous.
"Do you think it's easy to get GP appts and school places in London? Of course it's not, but it's way too easy to blame immigration for everything."
I don't believe I blamed immigration for everything, but if I can use an analogy of an alcoholic woman. This woman has a history of childhood abuse, is married to a man that beats her, is in a low paid job with failing physical and mental health. Now the alcoholism isn't her only problem, indeed it's not even the root of all her problems, but it is certainly making her problems much, much worse and preventing her from ever bettering her situation. To state the obvious, in this analogy immigration is alcohol.
"Populations change - always have and always will do. Ti some extent, communities have to embrace change or get left behind."
Now this is something that's thrown out there a lot that really gets my goat. The demographic of Britain was largely static until the latter half of the last century (see the statistic about London). Britain has never been a nation of immigrants, unlike America. Again, taking the 1961 census, which didn't record ethnicity, only around 4.4% of the population had been born outside of Britain and the BAME population was estimated to be under 1%. Current estimates project the indigenous population of Britain will have fallen to under 50% by 2050.
This radical demographic change is not happening in Africa, Asia, or pretty much anywhere outside of Europe. Pretending this level of demographic change, immigration and the problems that have arisen from it, are normal and expected would be risible if it wasn't so offensive.
And just out of curiosity, I wonder how many of the people that use this callously pragmatic argument of move with it or get left behind (aka get f**ked) would apply the same logic to say, the Palestinian people?
"Immigration patterns will change again as climate change takes hold - it may well be English flooding into Scotland or Scandinavia, while there is mass migration from parts of the world where life will become unsustainable due to drought or floods."
Well, Ectonubians from the planet R33471 could invade as their own planet is dying and use the population of earth as food but that's not really here nor there, can we stick to the current problem please?
"Never mind, 1000 men in a hotel in Piddington ffs."
Hmm, I think we all know this is not about "1000 men in a hotel in Piddington" FFS.
"The real problem in the UK is that people with the lowest educational attainment are frequently white, 'working class' boys - particularly in seaside towns (where there are virtually no immigrants). Are the low expectations and educational attainment of these U.K. citizens the fault of immigrants too? What is actually going on? Why are white working class children falling behind, while the top schools are full of the children of immigrant families? Whose 'fault' is it?"
This again is deflecting from the issue, but I can state with certainty that the unprecedented levels of immigration Britain has experienced since 1997 has not helped the problem and has, in fact, created and contributed to a myriad of other problems around economic and social inequality and cohesion that have radically eroded the educational standards, social mobility and quality of life of the poorest communities in Britain.
"And yes, there most certainly are racists in society - of course there are. You see it in these threads - people can't hide their true colours despite what they may believe. Trying to pretend otherwise is an utter farce."
Without a doubt, the current levels of immigration and the attitudes of the political classes (and their cheerleaders) is adding to this problem.
"Not voting Reform does not make me 'the Left' ffs."
Again, respectfully, I never stated that it did. I am not a reform voter and I am most certainly not on what's currently considered the left of politics.
"Reform will do nothing for the poorest in society. They are literally the last people who care. I will never vote Reform because they are rotten to the core, the lot of them."
I agree, reform will not do anything to help the poorest in society and they are rotten to the core, exactly like labour, the lib dems, the conservatives (although I'm starting to like Kemi) and the utterly repugnant greens.