AIBU to think mixed-sex changing facilities should be limited?

Right at the end of my post, (did you get that far before becoming incapacitated by self-righteous indignation) I did point out that it was secondary to the fact that separate changing rooms would solve the problem.

However, I do think more information is always helpful. For example was it grown men assaulting the young girls? That could also happen in the pool. So how about separating swim times by age group or female only swim times or lanes. I am sure there are actual sociologists who could make suggestions based on whatever is in the details of the data

My swimming pool has mixed sex changing room. I once saw a male customer walk around with no clothes.

I don't like the changing room. It's dirty. I don't feel unsafe but I think that may be because it's big and very open. I do think if you have mixed sex changing room you need to have staff there most of time and locks on doors need to work. You also need to ensure it's very obvious that it's a mixed sex changing room. I also think there should be single sex available too.

The reports on this case also say the phone contained pictures of naked girls changing in various changing rooms at the school. There are no gender neutral changing areas in schools in Scotland. There was also film from other non gender neutral toilets.

The girls’ story is she found the phone in the toilet roll holder when she had excused herself from class to visit the toilets. It had been filming for 15 minutes. This means it was likely placed there during class time. To suggest that boys are unable to access girls’ toilets unseen during class time is laughable.

The teenager was charged in 2024, but there are no further reports on the case. That’s very unusual, unless he was later released from the charge.

Instead of focusing on toilet facilities, we look at the rise in this type of behaviour across schools generally and what are schools doing about it. My daughter’s school had one boy who had been found upskirting girls several times, he was never suspended, police were never involved. That’s a far bigger problem that single sex toilets won’t solve.

I agree. Those numbers over two years at 91 facilities is quite low statistically (albeit every individual instance is traumatic for those involved). Our local pool has had a changing village for the 20 years I’ve lived here. You would have thought if these incidents were a major issue, it would have come to light locally by now.

Getting rid of changing villages would be low hanging fruit, in comparison to the assaults that happen in bars, clubs, schools, trains etc. This is no doubt being targeted within the trans rights culture wars, rather than as a real attempt to protect women and girls. The easy solution is to have staff in these facilities, making sure these areas are safe. To turn our local facilities into m/f/disabled/ with a gender neutral option would cost £millions that the local authority doesn’t have, and severely reduce the number of cubicles available. Is that really what people want, if it reduces the overall number of incidents by a fraction?

The OP is talking about changing the way we design changing facilities to protect women and girls from serious harm.

How does the age, nationality and gender identity of the offenders impact that discussion?

I’d be pretty surprised if all 100 offenders weren’t male.

The point the OP is making is that women and girls getting undressed are safer in single sex facilities.

Knowing the sex of the offender is useful info.

Knowing eg that he’s a 58 yo, Frenchman who wears a bit of eyeliner and nail polish doesn’t contribute to the policy discussion at all.

Experiences in mixed sex facilities.

Men washing their genitals and 'accidentally' flashing (Center Parks showers)
Similar in our local baths but this time it felt worse as they're was only me and my 3 young children.

Men lurking in a pack. There was nothing I could complain about but there was a vibe and it was unusual behaviour.

Personally, I feel safest in the mixed changing village at the pool. I don't find a single sex changing space much comfort given a door does not stop a malicious man going in. In the single sex gym changing rooms I feel less safe because it's down a corridor, with a double door, if something happens and I scream nobody is going to hear! In the mixed changing space for the pool, if someone tries anything and I scream it will be heard in the pool where there are staff and others.

A door and a 'you shouldn't be in here' isn't going to stop someone with malicious intent.

Indeed but it does seem that single sex space is a huge step towards safer facilities - and it would be daft to ignore that

I gave my personal opinion, are you saying I am lying, or not female, or what? Weird.

Rather than blaming mixed sex and assuming single sex changing is the best, we should be looking at what makes a changing environment the safest for all, (staff numbers, lighting, types of cubicles, types of showers, regular security checks of spaces, location within the building etc) and then there should be legislation that makes the key elements compulsory for new builds/refurbishments.

@narrowrailroad

Do you think a woman who doesn't want to change in front of other women is going to be more comfortable in a busy mixed sex facility?

You seem to be desperate to minimise the actual assaults that have taken place and are easier for men to perpetrate in mixed sex facilities.

Our local council pool has a changing village. It’s also the pool used by the local secondary school. I’ve lost count of the amount of times I’ve had to shout at teenage boys from looking under or climbing over the cubicles. NOT to sexually harass but to prank their friends. I always make the point that they might get the wrong cubicle and could end up in serious trouble. A minor good thing is the school takes the pupils to the pool in single sex classes.

Why do you assume covert cameras are only placed by men or only in mixed facilities? Many leisure centres including the more 'luxury' ones have more male staff than female, including those cleaning changing rooms, doing maintenance etc.

Where I am (South East) the local public/not for profit leisure centres all have mixed sex cubile changing. Its only the private gyms/spas etc that have old fashioned single sex locker rooms where some people just strip off randomly in full view of others. So there is no possibility to do a like for like comparison of single sex vs mixed as the demographics and just overall numbers using the facilities are dramatically different.

Personally I think the mixed sex thing is misleading - its more about what is the environment like - are there staff around, when did these assaults happen? Our local leisure centre genuinely doesn't have any quiet times, its always packed out even during the day. Things could be better as the cubicles could have higher/lower doors and frames, but other than that it feels a much more comfortable environment and much safer than the local places with single sex changing with zero privacy.

How do you know there isn't covert footage of you naked, mid-change in what you thought was a private cubicle? Or on the toilet there? That is a whole genre in itself and demand is high for new material.

Of course, if you are "what I don't know won't hurt me", then no big deal. But I suspect you'd probably rather not be included in that cache of wankbank material if you had the choice.

I’ve not been to our local pool for a while - the showers were few in number and completely open so only suitable for rinsing off with swimming costumes on (never saw anyone naked) and the changing was three rows of cubicles - female, mixed sex and male, with group/accessible rooms around the edge, and single sex loos. It was ok, not perfect but at least a reasonable attempt to provide for both sexes and mixed sex parent and children.

Purely single sex doesn’t work well for parents with opposite sex children at some ages/stages.

YANBU

There is no need for mixed sex facilities.

Family changing rooms are acceptable.

99% of people will be no hassle in mixed changing facilities, but you do get some creeps and we have had a rapid influx of men from inferior cultures whose conduct is not suitable for such an environment.

Women's space, safety and privacy are all non-negotiables.

Transvestites with delusions of grandeur (of "being a woman") should not be entertained either.

What has nonbinary got to do with anything?
Nonbinary is made up nonsense that is not recognised in law and everybody has a sex so can and should use the facilities for their sex.
The changing villages have been known to be dangerous for women and children for decades but are cheaper to run than single sex facilities with a few mixed sex family cubicles and are the preferred design of swim England and swim Scotland so all we get is mixed sex facilities and the predation of women and girls.
What we need is to go back to single sex facilities with a few family facilities and ban and report to the police any male who enters the female areas and/or walks around the communal areas naked

In my local swimming baths many of the men walk around the communal area including the mixed showers naked even when they know kids and women are around which is why I no longer go swimming and I know most women and girls have quit too.
Everytime the local council send out surveys asking why women and girls aren't using the facilities anymore they are told its because of the predatory behaviour of men and the lack of single sex facilities. The response from the council a notice saying keep your clothes on in the communal areas but no staff enforce it, no men are banned and the police wont even bother turning up.
So now its basically a male only swimming baths which is full of predatory men.