To move DS1's school to avoid him getting excluded?

OP - where is their dad? I asked before but I haven’t seen an answer.
I would separate them and send one to dad or another family member?

Op perhaps it is adhd. Though usually that would be obvious younger.
Do either struggle with sitting still/concentrating/impulsivity?

it maybe worth getting a referral anyway as their behaviour is out of the norm.
especially if dc1 is clever then he should be doing well. Also i thought generally id twins would be similarly intelligent so the fact dc2 struggles more does suggest there is something.

Anyway whilst i am very sympathetic i do think they probably needed more strict parenting even if just to see if they can behave.
i cant imagine having tricky twins. My dc have asd/adhd and when they are together it is even worse than you describe. Just at the weekend both in the back of the car it was relentless! Thankfully they are several years apart.

I think you do need to separate them its doing them no good. Even if its dropping dc2 back a year.

But if they are bottom sets, what are their predictions are they even going to oass maths and English?

Not just harsh (don't undersell yourself) but stupid and mean too. Perhaps if you have nothing to offer but smug condemnation backed up by little practical experience you could go drip poison somewhere else?

It is really difficult to deal with one teenager that's going off the rails. When you add in a twin and a self-reinforcing dynamic it becomes almost impossible. Luckily for the OP some people on this thread recognise this and have made helpful suggestions.

You're still saying "they were two cheeky boys", you're minimising their behaviour. If I got a single email or phonecall from the school about my child's behaviour you best believe I would come down on them like a ton of bricks, not just brush them off as "being cheeky"

People can't help you because you've caused this situation. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh but it's the reality. I really hope that they naturally mature over time and their lives become better.

Put them both in cadets. If they want electronics, they’ll go to cadets. Ideally a different one for each….
Ideally get them both into sport too.

They needed this years ago. But hopefully it’ll still have some positive impact.

Do they get pocket money? If so, only allow it all homework is done. If not, no pocket money.

Your boys are the type of boys who go to a PRU because they are the ones that are causing the trouble. All this nonsense about meeting worse types of boys. No that is your boys. They need a PRU and a mother who stops minimising their behaviour, putting off intervention and consistency of discipline that doesn't immediately crack.

At this point, you have already hit a point where your options are limited. An earlier intervention might have stopped this, but yes prison might be a real possibility if they don't have consequences and take it seriously.

Why should other kids have to put up with their behaviour?

I think separating them is worth a try and cannot do any harm at all. Twins and especially twin boys are very hard to parent.

Also it's not the exclusions that lead to prison, it's the behaviour that leads to exclusion and unfortunately you're already there

Unfortunately I think this is the result of you not taking their behaviour seriously when they were younger and nipping it in the bud.

I'd let them be excluded and sent to a pru to be honest. And I'd take their phones, games consoles and everything else

I’d move him

Yes or a local boxing club? or martial arts.

You give them their phones and controllers back? There is one of the causes of this. Lack of consequences.

You’ll find it very difficult to move them anywhere in Y11. Especially if they are at risk of exclusion.

While social services won't get involved, there should be a service in your LA for at risk teens. Have a look at your local authority website under 'local offer' or 'children's services'. It should be listed there.

Honestly.

This.

Changing schools at this point isn't going to change anything. I don't see what you are seeking to achieve.

More likely they will just refuse to go to school altogether, especially if they are separated.

It's clearly a problem that should have been dealt with years ago with them being separated.

Realising it's an issue now, means there are very few options left. You will struggle to find another school doing the same subjects and curriculum and you will struggle to get them to go.

They need consequences. Being expelled is one.

Being expelled might option up alternative options and support because the local authority will still require them in education.

You need actually stop pretending there isn't a problem/ swooping in to save them from expulsion. Your failure to address things sooner is a major contributor to where you are now.

Let them get expelled.

What are the consequences for them for this behavior?
Id separate them.
No mention of dad - any males close by?
They need a huge wake up call or this will escalate…

How long has their Dad been out of the picture? What kind of role model was he? Is there any way he could be involved again? (I imagine unlikely but you never know).

Do the boys have any other male figures in their lives? Could they be asked to be more active?

Maybe some kind of counselling would be appropriate for both boys. These sound to me like two boys who are dealing with issues they have in inappropriate ways which are validated and compounded by their twin.

I agree with above move DS2 and see if DS1 gets on better. You need to start ringing schools now.

Schools won’t let kids go out of year because they are measured on how many GCSE’s the students get at the age of 16. A private school might permit a restart but given they’re on free school meals I presume you don’t have the money.

in all honesty about the only thing that wakes up kids like this is doing badly at GCSEs and seeing the rest of their friends/year group moving on.

if they were at risk from county lines or similar social or the police would be aware and they do have programmes for teens in that situation.

I’d suggest that you focus on keeping them out of (big) trouble as much as possible.

in a year they could be at college. If you can go to open days and similar to help them start to see what they might want to do it may help.

@fridgefullofplums The problem
id that dc like this don’t know what the future could be or is. They are not mature enough to grasp the consequences of their actions. That’s why they ignore everyone and trash relationships. They are not going to understand that you need to lay foundations if you want anything out of life. They are stuck with op and she’s stuck with them. It’s very frightening for her I think.

The only possible chink might be a college or training centre for vocational training. They probably have no idea what they want to do and are close to being NEETS.

From what you've typed, if I was going to move one it would be DS2.

If DS1 has any brains, he will do better in a setting he knows with teaches who know him. If DS2 is likely to flunk, he might as well do that elsewhere and let his brother stand half a chance.

That's assuming they don't just both bunk off school to spend the day together.

What do they want to do after their GCSE's? Assuming they have given it any thought what so ever.

They seem so heavily reliant on each other for everything which doesn't seem like a great idea - and easy though this is to type, they have to look elsewhere other than each other. Even if one gets a serious girlfriend the triangulation and potential fall out could be awful. Not sure how you force them apart, unless they have separate schools and even that's not a given.

I have twins and I understand the dynamic. It's very difficult. A lot of the time twins do not seek approval or attention from anyone else other than each other, which makes parenting extremely challenging from a very young age.

Understanding this dynamic, I would definitely move one into another school in order to split them up for the majority of the day. Which ones to move is tricky – moving DS1 might effect his mental health less and he would be more likely to shape up faster, whereas moving DS2 might make him worse as it is ostracising him even more.

However DS2 might need a complete change of environment to enable change.

Sorry I don't believe in grounding and removing privileges willy nilly, even at 15 – I think that sort of stuff can be put in place, but it needs much more careful consideration opposed to doing it to 'punish'.