AIBU to think of course all the anti-trans posts on this website and others are leading to real life harm?

Men attacking men, is not the responsibilty of women. No matter what either side is wearing.

I have more often than not found any person who posts in disagreement with women who reject male people being included in single sex provisions tend to be the posters who demonise and denigrate the women rejecting those male people and they do it from the start of their posting on a thread. Using misleading terms such as ‘anti-trans’ and transphobic from the start. Telling women that they are extremists, hateful and bigoted too. Then claim to not feel that have had positive or neutral engagement.

It becomes a self fulfilling cycle but led by direct or implied denigrations from the start.

Quite often too, what women are saying is also misrepresented as them posting absolute statements such as ‘all male people with transgender identities are sex fetishists / perverts / predators ’, when women are saying something rather different. Such as ‘some’ male people with transgender identities are sex fetishists. Which, according to self-published anecdotes, even books, is accurate. Or some women will post about the predatory behaviour that is shown when a male person ignores female people’s lack of consent and accesses provisions described as being a female single sex provision.

It is rather easy to misrepresent people you disagree with. But it is also dishonest to do so.

Any person who posts transphobic content should be reported and it should deleted.

Oh, now. That is disingenuous.

YANBU. It's been bubbling under the surface on here for years, but only the past year or two become more overt. (I've been around since practically the dawn of time)
People openly calling trans women sexual fetishists/perverts (or using in gang codes that they think nobody else understands to try and get away with it)
Then all riling each other up over something or other that may not even be true, but don't let rationale get in the way....
Anyone trying to engage who's not "of same mind" is demonised or ridiculed.
Of course it's going to affect in real life eventually.

Lennon/Katie Dolatowski doesn't dress in outrageous clothes - most of what he wears is fairly unisex: jeans/joggers, shirts, cardigans. The hair's long but loads of men round about Kirkcaldy and the rest of Fife have long hair - it's not that unusual. (There are men in Fife who dress much more flamboyantly, but do not believe that they're women.)

What makes Dolatowski unusual is that he keeps trying to access women's spaces. His clothing doesn't suggest that there's anything out of the ordinary about him. The fact that he's a man attempting to access female spaces does suggest that he's dangerous.

He's twice carried out assaults against adolescent girls in supermarket toilets (one case of voyeurism and one attempted rape charged as a sexual assault) and has twice succeeded in accessing women's refuges where both women and children were housed.

He's supposed to be restricted from internet use because of his offences, but has broken this condition on numerous occasions and there have been reports of him arguing his case on internet forums.

As women have said time after time, the problem is that we cannot tell the difference between a man who is accessing women's spaces because he's a predator and one who's accessing women's spaces because he sincerely believes that he's a woman.

As MN is a British focussed website it might be helpful to clarify as you did on another thread tonight that you don’t live in the UK.

🤣

(Sorry)

I think we need to lighten up a bit....

Why did the transgender prospector move out west?
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There's gold in them/their hills!

Yes I think that’s what the evidence says.

A lot of abusers are also victims of abuse aren't they apparently?

This. Plenty of people who are vulnerable are also abusive to others. The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. Some men who threaten to kill themselves as a control mechanism actually do so, sometimes they take others with them too, or sometimes they are just genuinely in despair because people won’t do what they want them to. That’s not the fault of the other people.

https://readmedium.com/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d

Also it’s definitely noted that you’ve merrily ignored that most violent threats on the internet around the trans issue are towards women by trans identified males @helpfulucy but I guess you would. There’s been actual violence against women from them too.

Meh, don't really care as long as I don't have to see a todger in the ladies showers. Sadly, many have made it their life mission to make this a reality.

Why so much irrelevant whataboutery? Women are not responsible for male violence against other men.

Men will never be women, stop telling them they can use women’s spaces. That’s a genuinely helpful thing you can do for your male trans friends. They aren't welcome.

That’s horrible that those people have died and that they were bullied. Do you believe that if the whole world pretended that they really are the sex they want to be, that they would be happy? That the underlying issues contributing to their confusion or distress about their sex would resolve?

Being trans is clearly a ‘real thing’ in the sense that there are people who strongly wish that they were the opposite sex and wish to live in a way that simulates stereotypes of the sex they want to be. But please don’t be saying that as a medical doctor you mean that we need educated that a trans person is really the opposite sex inside?

That's absolutely awful. I won't ask you to say whether this is suicide, murder or medical complications, whether there are comorbitiities or how that compares to other vulnerable or indeed non-vulnerable groups, because whatever those facts are, if this is statistically anomalous we are failing trans people and it should be properly looked into not just handwaved away with a knee jerk "it's all women's fault for not laying down and giving up".

The solution however cannot be to undefine female people or force team us with men who believe themselves to feel female. It's not ok to replace one injustice with another.

Oh yes the non medical staff aren’t educated at all 🤣 “trans is real” - what does that mean?? Do you really, as allegedly a doctor, think people can change sex? Do you look for a vagina on a transwoman?

But even if trans people ARE committing suicide (which is what your post implies?) is that because people aren’t buying into their delusions? So is the solution for 50% of the population to give up their hard won rights and go along with the male delusion lest they kill themselves (reminds me of my manipulative ex who threatened suicide when I told him I was gonna leave). Is that fair? Why should women suffer because a minority of men have mental health problems wouldn’t the better solution be to NOT to lean into the lie, it help them learn to love themselves for who they are?

I am curious. Does anyone have the video?

ED consultant here. Ive had 6 trans lives lost in the past 6 months alone. The bullying is horrific. I understand non medical staff aren't educated that being trans is a real thing but the ignorance is horrifying. They are just trying to live like everyone else.

Men being wankers to other men sounds like a men problem.

I don’t think it’s possible for males to attempt to do the very difficult thing of hiding their sex and trying to pass as female without drawing attention. We’ve evolved to be able to still tell because our sex is in our bodies, not in our clothing, and it does look unusual. People may stare. If any men, and that includes men who identify as women, go into female-only places then they are breaking the law, sticking a finger up at our boundaries and they fully deserve to be called out for it.

I don’t believe trans people are routinely being abused in the streets. Certainly no more than other men or women are. Where’s the evidence? Bearing in mind the threshold for ‘hate’ and ‘transphobia’ and ‘genocide’ seems incredibly low and in my direct experience involves acts as small as using a correct-sex pronoun. On the contrary, trans males commit crimes at the same or higher rates than men who are not trans. They are constantly in the news being abusive and harmful. I don’t accept that they are the weak, marginalised victims. They are men, saying they are women. The trans identifying women have virtually never been a problem.

Maybe when men stop killing, raping attacking and hating us we can start talking about them being in our spaces. But right now we have NO reasons, whatsoever, to trust men - no matter how they identify. And Btw their identity is of no relevance or concern to women who just want to go about life without encountering predatory men at every turn. It’s very anti-feminist to suggest it’s up to women to put up with dangerous shit to keep a man happy

What I don't understand is how people can say "Yeah, society redefining women as a type of personality isn't great but it's not that important compared to the other things that happen to women so meh, we're gonna let one go".

Can't they see that if we start letting society, which is still at the end of the day focussed on men's perspectives, start to pick and choose which bits of being a woman matter and which can be handwaved away, we lose the ability to fight for women as we actually are?

Male violence towards women and girls is at epidemic levels. Making it easier never benefits women and girls, is the point. I do not know how clearer anyone can be on the topic to get this message across.