Is everyone, everywhere ND - I seriously am confused.

I went to school in the 70s with a girl, Anne, who was clearly autistic and prone to meltdowns and occasionally lashing out. We went on a school residential and were all taken to one side and told by a teacher that if she did lash out we could "hit her back hard". As a ten year old I thought that was wrong and I still think about it today

The 70’s was 50 years ago. You seriously remember the behaviour of every child in your school? I’m in my 40’s and can barely remember a day of primary school.

You think that the 70’s were great because YOU were young then. Children who were ‘different’ were just kept out of sight or hit with a stick when they misbehaved. It was hardly utopia.

There is the suggestion that no boundaries or discipline is causing autism. It isn't.

Not all of them.

@Dontlletmedownbruce I remember three year old kids at mass very quietly playing with a toy in the pew. People seem to have lost sight of what children are capable of.

I’m in my sixties.

Your recollection of school life in the 1970s tallies completely with mine. However, that was before the 1978 Warnock report.

Since then, a huge percentage of the children who would have been educated in special schools, staffed and tailored to meet their needs, are being shoehorned into mainstream education.

They can be ND. Some of the severest autistic kids are just like toddlers.

Not all ND kids throw chairs. Also those kids were given a place at special school. I went to one because I was apparently unteachable (early 90s). I actually just needed my hearing tested and hearing aids.

These weren't neuro diverse kids though. They were severely disabled children who often needed 1 to 1 physical care.

Agree. We used to understand discipline and manners. It started at home

I'm 51, with one definitely ND child and another likely. Waiting for assessment myself.

I am grateful that my autistic child lives in a time where she isn't forced to mask, but has support for her struggles. It took humiliation, abuse and often violence for kids of my generation to toe the line and now I'm all kinds of fucked up.

But yeah, at least I've got the hope of a label as consolation.

I don’t disagree and things have changed for
the worse a lot

but naughty/ hyperactive kids had their spirit knocked out of them (literally)

and there were better provisions for SEN kids in the 80s. If a child with additional needs went to
mainsy school it was something to be proud of. Now they’re all just lumped in together

There were children that slipped through the cracks of education that were invisible back then. Kids who mitched off school and left at 12. Probably kids with dyslexia or adhd and couldn't conform. There were kids with ND behaviours that went to special schools, now they go to mainstream. That is the most significant difference. So you can't directly compare.

I think the issue is the idea that a ND child can get away with bad behaviour. They need more boundaries more discipline and more parenting, not less. Making allowances for them involves approaching them in a positive way and making adjustments, not permitting disruptive behaviour. So i agree a huge amount of it is poor parenting. I dont think its necessarily misdiagnosis. It's more of a fair comparison to watch NT children and how they act in public, i don't know how many times I've seen kids in a queue at a shop run to the front of the queue and start fiddling with things on the counter. Or running off when called at a playground or play centre. Small little day to day behaviours that aren't awful but would not have been acceptable 30 years ago.

I always think of mass, I am Catholic and everyone went to Mass on Sunday and someone's absence would be commented upon. All children went to mass and stayed put. Toddlers usually stayed home between toddling and about 2 or 2.5 but we all managed to stay relatively still and quiet. We had little books or toys to keep us busy. I find it hard to believe that all children (unless disabled) in the 1980s were capable for stillness and silence for 45 mins yet these days people will tell you that a young child is simply not physically capable of this. We are not biologically different. One can argue that fear was the motivator to behave and this is possibly true, but the point still stands that it's not accurate to say children are not capable of something that they have always historically been capable of.

You didn't see the extreme cases because they were institutionalised. Ade you suggesting the same?

How so ..do elaborate
I'm autistic..I haven't been excused anything
Neither have my son's, we follow the same rules in society..there's no get out of jail free card for anyone with autism..we are all bound by the same laws

iPads, violent games, social media addiction, seeing others on YT doing stupid stuff ect

Poor behaviour is worsening for all kids, not just those with diagnoses.

It's the view of your generation OP. Nowadays, people don't like to take responsibility for anything not deal with the guilt that something might be their fault, so they seek a diagnosis because then the problem is not their fault nor for them to sort out.

My highly unpopular view is that many children are diagnosed ADHD or autistic because their parents are clueless at how to raise well adjusted children or too lazy and self focused to bother.

That's of course not all, but a large and growing proportion. Always zillions excuses.

When my oldest child ( now 25) started school the school psychology service became involved as they suspected he was on the autistic spectrum. I declined an assessment at the time and recall that I told the psychologist that my son was very much like my father and that I did not feel a label was necessary.

My son is fine , he has some traits as does one of my other children that align with autism. They are both lovely young people who importantly function well socially and academically.
I am not sure that the current emphasis / focus on diagnosis serves everyone well. Perhaps just more tolerance and kindness overall would be a more helpful thing. We are all different after all.
I do think parenting and environmental factors are at play too . And then the worry is that diagnoses are applied without any attempt to tackle any of the underlying issues why children and young people are struggling in such high numbers .

We lack discipline these days and everyone is excused if they have autism or ADHD.

Didnt naughty kids get caned in the 70s?

The 1981 education act allowed parents of children with special educational needs (who had previously been refused access to schools) to apply to mainstream schools. That application couldn’t be refused.

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmeduski/478/47805.htm

there have been two major updates but both of these strengthened the presumption of mainstream for students with disabilities.

so until 1970 these students could legally be refused an education. From 1970 to 1981 most local authorities admitted them to schools for the “educationally subnormal” or other such words.

in 1981 they started coming into mainstream schools.

Oh i remember a lot of bad behaviour at school in the 80s when I was at secondary. A boy in my class through a chair at the history teacher.
loads of ADHD and undiagnosed dyslexia, def autism - and I’m just thinking of my form group.
Autism was seen as an intellectual disability and now we know that’s not the case.
Many kids mask in school and let it out at home - schools are different places now, we had corporal punishment still in the 70s ffs!

My department has about 25 people. I know at that least 3 of them are diagnosed with ADHD. One is the head of the department, she’s very eminent and well known in her field, and very outgoing and popular. The others also show no indication of being hindered by it whatsoever.

I pretty sure I would probably be diagnosed too, if I undertook the assessment. However, I’ve no desire to take medication, and I don’t really understand what a diagnosis would achieve. I am what I am and manage it accordingly.

That is OPs point. These kids were undiagnosed and in ordinary classrooms. There was no chair throwing or melt downs. There was day dreaming and not achieving your full potential.