Why hasn’t Michael Jackson been cancelled??

But surely your must agree that his actions are unacceptable, or at least by today’s standards? Sleeping in beds with teenage boys? Would you allow your child to do that? I know people argue that is parents allowed it, but were they groomed too? Maybe wowed by a megastar choosing them to socialise with?

Even if you feel that nothing sexual went in, there was definitely a lot of safeguarding red flags that wouldn’t be acceptable or tolerated today.

I can only assume that a large portion of Jackson's defenders believe the reason that rape conviction rates are persistently low is because most accusations are false.

It just takes a few people to watch a couple of Netflix documentaries apparently - then a guaranteed sex offender is made. If only they’d been on the jury, this would have all been sorted out.

How many people does it take to make a sex offender? One? Three? Fifty?

Erm 🫤 we all had front row seats unfortunately as he didn’t exactly try to hide the fact that he wanted children in his bed. There have also been multiple documentaries and court cases. I don’t know that they weren’t prolific child abusers hence the bit where I said “as far as we know”. And none of them.. not even Elvis is celebrated like MJ to this day. They’re all disgusting but with MJ, people just can’t accept what was in front of their face. If they look weird and act weird. They’re usually a bit fucking weird. Jimmy Saville is another prime example of this.

How many sex offenders that he’s worked with were world famous?

How many of their victims were globally vilified by crazed fans as money-grabbing liars? And have had to live life off-piste?

How many victims of Epstein do we think there were vs the number who actually came forward?

I read an AMA with a senior police officer who worked on cases of sex crimes against children, and one of the questions was did he think MJ was guilty. His answer was, that if he was guilty, then he would expect that, in his experience, that there would have been a lot more accusers.

obviously we will never know either way, but it certainly made me think.

Just to add - cancellation itself is not what this is all about, but acknowledgement of his crimes.

There needs to be a full investigation and clemency for his victims.

After that if people still want to listen to his music that’s up to them, along with Lost Prophets and Gary Glitter.

I’ve found out since I posted about this earlier in the thread that the 50% back catalogue Sony paid 750 million for 2016 was not MJ’s personal back catalogue but others that he had bought the rights to eg The Beatles. (Much to the annoyance of Paul).

MJ’s personal back catalogue was bought by Sony in.. 2024.

I figured the 2016 deal was before Leaving Neverland. But they can’t say that in 2024 they didn’t know the seriousness of allegations.

It’s so cynical.

Agreed, no one objects to documentaries about Hitler. But reading out his speeches and saying things like “ he was actually a very good politician you know” and called out for what they are - whitewashing and nazi sympathising.

Jackson was enormously influential in the pop music scene. You can’t erase that impact, it’s physically impossible because music that followed wouldn’t exist.

But this is far far removed from encouraging a new generation of fans via movies and playing his music publicly.

Its an absolutely valid point to make, and a great and interesting debate could be had about that

Its when fans just deny there was any abuse in the first place that's my issue.

Honestly I think it depends on what you mean by "cancel". I think a good balance would be dropping him from live broadcasts (e.g., radio playlists) but keeping his works available on-demand.

There's a difference between censoring media and celebrating it.

And for all the talk about sepearting the art from the artist - I don't think that's truly possible when the artist is a part of the art. E.g., most paintings, books, movies don't directly feature the artist themselves in the way that a singer/performer is featured in a song/video. If he were solely the songwriter it'd be more equivalent.

I totally agree on separating the art from the artist and the world would be a duller place without that music and literature

That said, putting fingers in ears and going lalalala because you i(not you personally) idolise a personality so much is so dangerous. Its like because they are idolised and loved so much, their huge fans just can't take it in that they were monsters personally.

I asked earlier and ask again, why were alarms on the doors to his bedrooms? Why were there childrens fingerprints on porn magazines? What about the cleaner and finding bloodstained children's underpants and glasses of alcohol or Jesus Juice as he called it?

Of course we get the lazy argument about money money money, quickly glossing over everything....our wonderful Michael couldn't have done that!

None of it negates his musical legacy or any other artist either but facts are facts and not believing child victims in lieu if a pop prince is abhorrent to me.

This. The next will be my love - Dave Chapelle, I fear.

I find it notable that the "MJ was innocent" crowd are so quick to write-off the validity of the accusations against him - where testimony has changed over time - but fail to acknowledge that Jackson's response/defence in 1993 and 2005 also relied on testimony from those same individuals they now decry as too unreliable to be believed.

The "financial opportunist" argument does not stack up, for me. It would have been far easier for people to make claims during his lifetime, and they would have far more leverage to do so, while Jackson was alive.

If anything, this appears more the case of a prolific child sex offender who was protected by his wealth, as it allowed the prosecution to smear his accusers and the independent witnesses (the maid and security guard) as motivated by greed.

I do think that paedophilia is in a different bracket to taking advantage of teen groupies who were old enough to have capacity to consent (13+) even if they hadn’t reached the age of consent.

I think that cultivating an image of childfriendliness and charitableness in order to get access to children to abuse them is particularly heinous. As is the institutional defence of paedophilia. MJ’s crimes need to be called to account is so that society can learn from them.

I’m not sure what we can learn from the fact impressionable teens have a tendency to throw themselves at rockstars. Other than promote awareness and protect our own kids. Jared Leto looks like he might be about to be cancelled on this front nonetheless. And if someone said they avoided Zep, Bowie or Elvis on that score I’d think that fair enough.

Fwiw I read Dickens but I don’t read Philip Roth. Dickens lived in a time when mistreatment of women was standard.

I think him being black is very relevant. White people have been cancelled for (for example) saying we should ‘show grace’ to a young white woman who was found to have attended a plantation party when she was a teenager. The pile on was murderous and Chris Harrison merely asked if she’d been punished enough. He was kicked off his show and left without any hope of maintaining an income.

Many similar such cases.

People commenting that MJ is dead, so impossible to cancel, are being very naive. Cancellation would mean his music was never heard again, and his whole life’s work disappeared. Guilty or not guilty, he’s been given massive benefit of the doubt. He shouldn’t have been having sleepovers with kids.

And what would feel right? In what way must SA survivors express themselves to “prove” authenticity? How do they gainsay thé preconceptions of their listeners. This is pretty dismal coming from a DV support worker as SA is a key component of DV.

It reminds me of the time a friend of mine disclosed serious sexual assault (ie rape) to her psychiatrist, only for him to gloss over it. Later when she challenged him on his response he said thought her reference to it was so matter of fact that it wasn’t a big deal.

The thing is, how far do we go with cancelling people? If MJ gets cancelled and nobody listens to his music, then this should apply to numerous artists. David Bowie, members of Led Zeppelin and numerous other rock stars slept with underage girls. John Lennon most probably was violent towards women. Elvis was a creep who liked young virgins, yet these men are known as some of the greatest musicians of all time. Do you leave the dance floor when their songs are played? Roald Dahl had some controversial racist views, Charles Dickens was abusive to his wife and had teenage mistresses as a middle aged man, yet his literature is phenomenal and an important part of English literary heritage. Should we cancel their books too?

Sorry, how does the parent know what Jackson’s penis looks like?

Clutching a straws there.

Yeah I’m offended by anallying raping 9 year olds. If you’re not maybe you shouldn’t be near children.

You mean a parent coaching a child and telling them what to say and then financially benefiting from what the child said? Sure.

I will never apologise for loving MJ so feel free to continue pearl clutching, I'm sure it makes life much easier for you to be so offended by everything.

Not sure if this has been brought up but....

I was a DV advisor for a long time and also a survivor of child abuse. I have heard tons of disclosures, like other support workers, sadly.

At first, having watched MJ say that yes he slept with the boys, watching the documentaries etc, saw Oprah interview the men - I believed them. I believe survivors and they do not need to jump through hoops for me to advocate for them.

BUT I will always remember this.

The moment of disclosure. The bit on the documentary where the man said, 'and then he...'

I just frowned and thought, hang on a minute, this doesn't sound right.....

Then I saw a thread somewhere online from other support workers, all saying 'Hey did anyone feel that disclosure was a bit off? Everyone thinks he did it, but the way he said it didn't feel right.'

This is why I am not sure MJ did it.

“The fbi didn’t find CSAM” is not the same as “the police and FBI found NOTHING”

Thats fine keep deluding yourself. I hope one day you realise how you are part (yes a tiny part but still a part) of systematic cover ups of child abuse and feel terrible about it.

Ive said it before and ill say it again: a child being able to describe an adults erect penis in detail IS evidence.

False

Overview of FBI Involvement Support Role:

The FBI did not lead an independent, decade-long continuous probe into Jackson; rather, the bureau provided technical, forensic, and investigative assistance to local law enforcement (such as the LAPD and Santa Barbara County prosecutors) during the 1993 and 2004–2005 investigations.Digital and Material Checks: Federal agents reviewed seized materials and computer files, including looking into a low-quality VHS tape referred to in a 1995 U.S. Customs inquiry, but found no actionable evidence or illegal child pornography.

Declassified Files: When the FBI files on Michael Jackson were released under the Freedom of Information Act following his death in 2009, the documents confirmed that authorities turned up no proof that he had harmed a child or committed a crime. Jackson was never charged by federal authorities, and in his 2005 state trial, a California jury acquitted him of all child molestation charges.

I shall continue listening to his awesome music and be thankful that spiteful people with no actual evidence can't unilaterally cancel someone

I don’t know how to contact the mods but could someone please explain why my replies are being deleted. Aren’t you supposed to get an email explaining?