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Original poster

AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

367 replies

Poster555 · 12/09/2026 08:48

NC for this. I know landlords aren’t always popular here.

I own and manage a few HMO’s in a nearby city. All legal requirements fulfilled, and normally have long term tenants.

I woke this morning to a host of missed calls.
One of the tenants, who has been fine for several years, invited his friend/ relative to stay for a temporary period as she was having issues with her landlord.
He did not discuss this with me or the other tenants.

Tenants are of course allowed visitors, including overnight for a day or two ( longer if they are visiting from abroad, etc. it’s pretty flexible).
The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that visitors visit the person, and they should never be left unsupervised in the property or given a key.

Around 6 weeks ago I was at the property for a routine treatment. The visitor was there alone. I had to ask her to leave as harmful chemicals were being used.

I had a chat with the tenant later and he explained it was a one off emergency.

It later transpired after complaints from other tenants and some unexplained damage that she was living in the property.

That was a problem. She had no primary address elsewhere and her presence took the property into the next level of HMO, meaning it needed to be registered.
The penalties for not registering when required are severe.

I told the tenant he needed to tell her to leave.

He did so and was met with a lot of resistance, but eventually she went, only to return in the early hours some days later. He felt he had to let her in.

He asked for my help to get her to leave. She refused, saying the council had told her that I’d have to get a court order to evict her.

Legal advice was that he invited her in and once he told her she was no longer welcome we could change locks when she was out.

She actually went out without a key and whilst she was gone he put her belongings in a locked shed outside, offering to open it when she needed.

That was about a week ago. I thought it was sorted. The calls in the early hours were from my tenant and the police asking if I would agree to her staying the night.

I would have said no and fortunately as they couldn’t reach me she was not allowed in.

This woman clearly has problems. I’d say she is vulnerable, but the same council that was advising her not to leave my property, whilst refusing any sort of practical assistance, would also be the ones taking action against me for running an unlicensed HMO.

The tenant is being bullied by so called friends to let her stay. He is under a lot of pressure but I’ve had to tell him that if he lets her stay I will have to take steps to evict him.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’
I wasn’t expecting to speak to the police at 2-3 am though. Apparently they weren’t happy with me and thought the tenant should be able to take her in.

OP posts:
SuffolkMan · 12/09/2026 18:09

What nationality is the homeless alcoholic unemployed woman?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/09/2026 17:57

The OP has no reasonable choice but to get this woman to piss off and if the tenant doesn't comply, evict them for breach of contract. There isn't an alternative

Precisely, @RedToothBrush, and accurately put on the rest of it

It's become very clear that a lot's being said to OP for effect, and no doubt it all sounds very nice about "caring for each other", but while they probably don't give a damn about the impact this has on other tenants and OP, her overall responsibility remains the same

Which is why I've said all along that a hard approach is necessary

GroundCloves · 12/09/2026 17:42

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2026 17:34

Be kinders are not grasping that if the OP doesn't take action there may be consequences for all the tenants living in the house.

The OP has responsibility for all of them.

If she lets one person - who doesn't have a legal agreement with her - take the piss, the people whom she has obligations to may find themselves in a situation where the OP loses the licence for the HMO or is fined so she has to sell. Or there are insurance implications somewhere.

It does my tits in when people virtue signal but have no fucking clue nor thought given to all affected parties.

The OP is limited in the options she has available and how it puts others at risk. The OP has legal obligations to the tenants but not to this random woman who is effectively trying to squat and is fraudulently saying this is her address.

What other things has she signed up to for this address? Fuck knows.

The OP has no reasonable choice but to get this woman to piss off and if the tenant doesn't comply, evict them for breach of contract. There isn't an alternative.

Show quote history

If only the UK government recognised it had similar responsibilities to the country.

RedToothBrush · 12/09/2026 17:34

Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/09/2026 15:50

You would be in huge trouble for overcrowding if you allowed multiple people in each room and all the posters saying let her stay now would be saying what awful conditions people were living in

Indeed, @chirrupybird; we've already had one telling OP to "do more" and the usual landlord bashers and "be kind-ers" are already circling

In fairness none of us know this woman's immigration status, but it bears saying that some aren't in the least interested in what's lawful or what their own responsibilities are. They simply want somewere free to stay and to live off others, and if that causes trouble for the likes of OP, too bad

As said, OP's tenant may or may not be of this mindset - though the lying about her staying and repeatedly letting her in aren't positive - but that's something I'd want to know before making any decisions on what to do about his own considerable part in this

Be kinders are not grasping that if the OP doesn't take action there may be consequences for all the tenants living in the house.

The OP has responsibility for all of them.

If she lets one person - who doesn't have a legal agreement with her - take the piss, the people whom she has obligations to may find themselves in a situation where the OP loses the licence for the HMO or is fined so she has to sell. Or there are insurance implications somewhere.

It does my tits in when people virtue signal but have no fucking clue nor thought given to all affected parties.

The OP is limited in the options she has available and how it puts others at risk. The OP has legal obligations to the tenants but not to this random woman who is effectively trying to squat and is fraudulently saying this is her address.

What other things has she signed up to for this address? Fuck knows.

The OP has no reasonable choice but to get this woman to piss off and if the tenant doesn't comply, evict them for breach of contract. There isn't an alternative.

Original poster
Poster555 · 12/09/2026 17:24

GroundCloves · 12/09/2026 14:03

Her friend took the blame at the time, but later admitted that she caused this damage, together with some broken furniture in his room.

I don’t think you can know who caused the damage. It is very convenient for the tenant to blame this lady.

I cannot be certain who caused the damage as I wasn’t there and no one witnessed it.

From a liability perspective it’s not relevant as the tenant is liable either way. The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that the tenant is responsible for any damage caused by his visitors.

OP posts:
Original poster
Poster555 · 12/09/2026 17:20

Another update.

I have been to the flat. The relevant tenant didn’t answer when I knocked on his door. There were 2 other tenants there who both thought he’d gone out.

There were items, including female clothing, in the shed.

The 2 tenants I spoke to have not seen the friend in the flat for several days.

Some of the tenants have been with me for years and as far as I can possibly tell I trust these two to be honest.

They did admit that the friend had been there there often and they weren’t happy with it, but didn’t want to make a fuss. That changed after the damage to the shower.

They say that all tenants are aware of the need to not let her into to the flat.

On my way out a neighbour spoke to me ( I always introduce myself to the neighbours and give them my contact details in case of problems). She is elderly and sleeps very little at night. I get on well with her but she is definitely a ‘nosey neighbour’ She told me that the woman had remained in the shared hallway. She saw her on her way out around 6.00am.

She had overheard a bit of the conversation with police. The woman refused to leave with the PC’s. There was some discussion and eventually they said she was not under arrest and then left.

I haven’t heard any more from the tenant or anyone else, thankfully.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 12/09/2026 15:50

You would be in huge trouble for overcrowding if you allowed multiple people in each room and all the posters saying let her stay now would be saying what awful conditions people were living in

Indeed, @chirrupybird; we've already had one telling OP to "do more" and the usual landlord bashers and "be kind-ers" are already circling

In fairness none of us know this woman's immigration status, but it bears saying that some aren't in the least interested in what's lawful or what their own responsibilities are. They simply want somewere free to stay and to live off others, and if that causes trouble for the likes of OP, too bad

As said, OP's tenant may or may not be of this mindset - though the lying about her staying and repeatedly letting her in aren't positive - but that's something I'd want to know before making any decisions on what to do about his own considerable part in this

disturbia · 12/09/2026 15:40

Poster555 · 12/09/2026 11:03

Apologies for being missing from the thread for a while. It’s been pretty hectic.

The reason the police were involved is that they removed her from another property at the owner/ tenant’s request ( not sure why, but could probably hazard a guess that she was drunk and aggressive as that has been an issue before, although only found this out from other tenants very recently). Having removed her the police needed to do some with her. She had apparently given my property address when she was charged with an earlier criminal matter.

I have spoken to my tenant, who feels bad about his friend’s situation, but really doesn’t want her sharing his room any more.

I have spent a long while on hold and speaking to various people within the police trying to get my address removed from her records. That’s not been possible as she has to be the one to change the address, but they have at least told me there is now a note to say she will not be admitted.

To the person who says I was wrong to suggest evicting the tenant. If he continues to let her in I have no option but to try to evict him for breaching subletting clause. That might be my only escape from fines and rent repayment orders from the council if things get that far. Fortunately he doesn’t want her there either.

He can, however, tell all of the ‘friends’ that I am the one stopping her staying which will hopefully relieve some of his pressure.

The situation is still tricky. I don’t know where she spent the rest of the night, but I do know that she still has nowhere to stay.

The council will not house her as she does not have the correct entry Visa. She can’t get benefits either.

I will be leaving my phone on tonight in case of further issues

She is not your problem OP and your tenant now agrees. Sounds harsh but you have to be in these situations. https://thestreetlink.org.uk help people who are sleeping rough regardless of benefit entitlement etc

StreetLink - Connecting people sleeping rough to local services

Welcome to StreetLink. Make an alert if you've seen someone sleeping rough, or if you're sleeping rough and want to find out about local support services.

https://thestreetlink.org.uk

SuffolkMan · 12/09/2026 15:19

Pumpkindice · 12/09/2026 15:08

There are plenty of routes that someone can be here legally and NRPF. I'm angry that racist men invade Mumsnet but here we are!

Also, whose hospitality is she abusing exactly - she's not getting anything from you or I. That's what NRPF means Seems you've missed the entire point of the thread. But then given you think people with NRFP are rounded up by border force patrolling our streets, that's not really surprising.

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She is causing problems for the tenant for the OP & for the police. I'm as left wing as they come & vehemently anti-racist which doesn't mean I think we as a society should be tolerating a homeless unemployed alcoholic migrant taking the piss.

whymadam · 12/09/2026 15:18

BerryTwister · 12/09/2026 10:01

@VointofPiew are you a private landlord? Private landlords are a big part of the housing problem in this country, putting up rent costs, and removing properties from the potential social housing pool. Would it not be better if you gave your house to the council?

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OMG there is always one.

MaggieMop · 12/09/2026 15:10

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Pumpkindice · 12/09/2026 15:08

SuffolkMan · 12/09/2026 14:53

She is a homeless unemployed alcoholic. She won't be on a student visa. If she was on a work visa that will have been tied to the job she no longer has. If she is on a tourist visa or a visa waiver that is only good for 3-6 months then she becomes an overstayer. I just cannot understand why more people aren't angry that this immigrant is abusing our hospitality.

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There are plenty of routes that someone can be here legally and NRPF. I'm angry that racist men invade Mumsnet but here we are!

Also, whose hospitality is she abusing exactly - she's not getting anything from you or I. That's what NRPF means Seems you've missed the entire point of the thread. But then given you think people with NRFP are rounded up by border force patrolling our streets, that's not really surprising.

friendlyflicka · 12/09/2026 15:06

GoldenSandy · 12/09/2026 14:58

Why should he have to get somewhere else??
If he's in need of somewhere else then you've not made him comfortable enough. Do more.

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Would you like to stay in a one room dwelling in a house full of strangers for the rest of your life? Why should be not have greater aspirations?

BruFord · 12/09/2026 15:05

I lived in HMOs for years, many people can't afford to live on their own. It's already pressured sharing communal space with strangers, it's not fair on the other tenants if there's an extra person and the related tenant doesn't even want them there - you need to support the tenants, not a random person who is trying to join for free!

@Pumpkindice is right. Aside from the legal implications, you're supporting and protecting your existing tenants by not allowing her to stay. She clearly has major problems and could cause so much trouble for them.

The tenant who has allowed her to stay sounds rather vulnerable himself as he's finding it hard to say no. Keep backing him up, OP.

GoldenSandy · 12/09/2026 14:58

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 12:26

No need. He's happy with a roof over his head until he gets somehere else.

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Why should he have to get somewhere else??
If he's in need of somewhere else then you've not made him comfortable enough. Do more.

MontyDonsBlueScarf · 12/09/2026 14:55

The woman in question is not the only person who needs help here. The tenants desreve to have their tenancy agreements honoured and not to be subjected to overcrowding. The OP shouldn't be blamed for doing her best to balance these needs while meeting her own legal obligations.

@VointofPiew the OP isn't throwing someone out on the streets any more than you or I are. This lady is on the streets anyway. The OP is declining to help because it conflicts with her other responsibilities and obligations. It's not for OP to agree to help by disadvantaging a number of other people to whom she has a legal and moral obligation.

SuffolkMan · 12/09/2026 14:53

Pumpkindice · 12/09/2026 13:49

NRPF is not the same as being in the UK illegally. In fact, the majority of people who come to the UK from outside the EU as legal migrants have NRPF clauses, contrary to the popular belief that they're given free homes.
If you'd read the thread you'd have seen that the OP has already been given advice about what services can do - which is usually to help people return home to family- but if she's here legally it's her choice whether to do that, nothing to do with immigration.

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She is a homeless unemployed alcoholic. She won't be on a student visa. If she was on a work visa that will have been tied to the job she no longer has. If she is on a tourist visa or a visa waiver that is only good for 3-6 months then she becomes an overstayer. I just cannot understand why more people aren't angry that this immigrant is abusing our hospitality.

Anextrasetofhands11 · 12/09/2026 14:48

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:10

Id not throw out a vulnurable woman on the streets, no.

Even if you broke the law and faced penalties and legal liabilities issued against you? It's not OPs responsibility. If the tenant wants to help then they should move somewhere and get a joint tenancy with the person. Although I bet they don't want that as it sounds like the person is causing issues.
OP has been a very reasonable landlord and has even spoke to police and is prepared to speak to others involved.

user1464187087 · 12/09/2026 14:35

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:44

Yeah I probably would. I'd not throw out anyone on the streets if I had the proximity and power to help them. That's not how I have been raised and I don't give a single shit about laws or policies. I care about humans. I'd let her stay off the books.

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What if it was a convicted murderer or rapist?

Dollymylove · 12/09/2026 14:35

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:10

Id not throw out a vulnurable woman on the streets, no.

Would you be willing to take her in?
My guess is not cat in hells chance 🤣

Nearly50omg · 12/09/2026 14:34

Why can’t the friends take her in then?

LIZS · 12/09/2026 14:33

Poster555 · 12/09/2026 13:35

I have spoken to the social worker or duty worker, I’m not clear exactly which department she is from.

The woman basically told a pack of lies. She has claimed that she thought she had a joint tenancy with the actual tenant. That’s easy to disprove.

She has told this person that I threatened her with physical ejection ( I did not, I told her that she was trespassing and she should leave). She was the one who asked if I was going to physically throw her out. This was in a telephone conversation.

She also complained that the shower was unusable. ( it was a bit harder to use because someone pulled the rail down and I had to get someone in to fix it). Her friend took the blame at the time, but later admitted that she caused this damage, together with some broken furniture in his room.

The social worker both insisted she was vulnerable and shouldn’t be homeless and also that she did not meet their criteria for help.

We reached a bit of a stalemate, but the bottom line is that I told her the woman will not be allowed into the flat.

Why is that your responsibility though? Just reiterate you do not have and have never had any housing contract with her and she needs to work with agencies such as sw to find alternatives. Noone can force you to take her in.

MaggieMop · 12/09/2026 14:26

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

5128gap · 12/09/2026 14:25

You have no choice really. As you say, you are permitted by law to house only a stated number of people. If you exceed this you are acting unlawfully and also breaching the agreements of your other tenants who have contracted with you to share amenities with a certain number of other people. I wouldn't want to pay to share communal spaces and facilities with 4 people and find myself sharing with 5.
I think the more involved you become in this woman's circumstances the more pressure will be put on you (including emotionally) to house her. And you can't.
So stick to your guns and refuse to be drawn in to discussing her, with the local authority or anyone else. It's not actually helping her, as provided she has a roof, she will be kicked down their priority list.

Mindblowing · 12/09/2026 14:20

If another tenant reports op she could be taken to court/fined as she will have broken the law.

‘Off the books’ is what slum landlords do. They allow over occupancy. They breach guidelines and rules. Why are people suggesting op becomes the type of landlord that most people despise?

Also why should 3 tenants suffer to help one woman who shouldn’t be there?

The be kind brigade could open their front room to this woman.That’s what I would suggest to the ‘friends’, council or police. If they are concerned let them house her at their expense in their bedroom. But they will no doubt have an excuse as to why it’s not feasible!