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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

367 replies

Poster555 · 12/09/2026 08:48

NC for this. I know landlords aren’t always popular here.

I own and manage a few HMO’s in a nearby city. All legal requirements fulfilled, and normally have long term tenants.

I woke this morning to a host of missed calls.
One of the tenants, who has been fine for several years, invited his friend/ relative to stay for a temporary period as she was having issues with her landlord.
He did not discuss this with me or the other tenants.

Tenants are of course allowed visitors, including overnight for a day or two ( longer if they are visiting from abroad, etc. it’s pretty flexible).
The Tenancy Agreement is very clear that visitors visit the person, and they should never be left unsupervised in the property or given a key.

Around 6 weeks ago I was at the property for a routine treatment. The visitor was there alone. I had to ask her to leave as harmful chemicals were being used.

I had a chat with the tenant later and he explained it was a one off emergency.

It later transpired after complaints from other tenants and some unexplained damage that she was living in the property.

That was a problem. She had no primary address elsewhere and her presence took the property into the next level of HMO, meaning it needed to be registered.
The penalties for not registering when required are severe.

I told the tenant he needed to tell her to leave.

He did so and was met with a lot of resistance, but eventually she went, only to return in the early hours some days later. He felt he had to let her in.

He asked for my help to get her to leave. She refused, saying the council had told her that I’d have to get a court order to evict her.

Legal advice was that he invited her in and once he told her she was no longer welcome we could change locks when she was out.

She actually went out without a key and whilst she was gone he put her belongings in a locked shed outside, offering to open it when she needed.

That was about a week ago. I thought it was sorted. The calls in the early hours were from my tenant and the police asking if I would agree to her staying the night.

I would have said no and fortunately as they couldn’t reach me she was not allowed in.

This woman clearly has problems. I’d say she is vulnerable, but the same council that was advising her not to leave my property, whilst refusing any sort of practical assistance, would also be the ones taking action against me for running an unlicensed HMO.

The tenant is being bullied by so called friends to let her stay. He is under a lot of pressure but I’ve had to tell him that if he lets her stay I will have to take steps to evict him.

I have told him that I will speak to any official bodies that are trying to pressure him, and to the ‘friends’
I wasn’t expecting to speak to the police at 2-3 am though. Apparently they weren’t happy with me and thought the tenant should be able to take her in.

OP posts:
Original poster
Poster555 · 13/09/2026 18:15

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

Whilst I wouldn’t normally disagree with someone who manages hundreds of units, this is not what my local council says.

Their website says an HMO which needs to be registered is 5 or more people forming two or more households. Even if she and the tenant were one household that would make four in total in the property.

The other tenants don’t want her there. They moved into an all male household with a total of 4 tenants, not a mixed one with 5 tenants.

OP posts:
mylifestory · 13/09/2026 18:06

Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:44

I only own one large flat within the block.

I can only ask the tenants of other flats for assistance.

I am not sure how cooperative they will be. I am asking them to exclude a lone female from the building.

Show quote history

tell them she is a danger to everybody, they will soon keep her out!

mylifestory · 13/09/2026 18:04

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

this is incorrect, it will tip over into hmo 5 pl as they are 2 not related to the other 3!

RocketLollyPolly · 13/09/2026 18:04

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

And whether the OP and other tenants want her there. It sounds like the legalities are just one part of this

mylifestory · 13/09/2026 18:03

Im a landlord too.
Do not under any circumstances let this woman stay in your house with your permission for even one minute.
If you do then shes a permitted tenant regardless of paying any rent or not and you will have to go to court to get rid of her.
Shes not your responsibility, you dont know her, she has no contract with you, nothing to do with you!
Get her out, even get an injunction from the police to keep her out. Keep calling them if shes there and they will soon find her an alternative! Just call the police and have her removed, make up what you like, say she has a weapon and you feel scared even if shes in the kitchen making food. Police will come straight away

KJD2025 · 13/09/2026 17:58

You need to get proper advice as your tenant and the lady are not unrelated (I don’t mean as in genetically, I mean they know each other well and are one household) the rules on HMOs is that you only need a licence if 4 or more unrelated people or households live together. Your tenant and his friend will be classed as one household so it won’t actually tip you over into the next bracket. I know this because I manage hundreds of units within HMO licenced properties. If you speak to the council they will confirm. I think the issue is whether your tenant wants her there or not

LouiseK93 · 13/09/2026 17:55

I think its clear as day why she's having issues with her landlord. Shes the issue.
She may have problems and be vulnerable but she is not going to help herself if people come to her rescue all the time.

Blondeshavemorefun · 13/09/2026 12:20

Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:44

I only own one large flat within the block.

I can only ask the tenants of other flats for assistance.

I am not sure how cooperative they will be. I am asking them to exclude a lone female from the building.

Show quote history

fingwes crossed

HavingABlether · 13/09/2026 11:31

This is true, and makes my point about local government could be more joined up. But let's not derail the thread on what the council could do differently; we agree on the question OP has asked.

Pumpkindice · 13/09/2026 10:29

HavingABlether · 13/09/2026 10:18

Yes, I agree with you that it's up to OP to operate legally and that'swhy she's done the right thing. What I meant was the council are being unhelpful in telling the woman not to leave given the ramifications.

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The council could only give her advice on what she told them, which was a lie (that she had a joint tenancy agreement to share the room)

HavingABlether · 13/09/2026 10:18

OneLilacHedgehog · 13/09/2026 09:59

The different bits of the council are not working against each other. It is up to the OP to ensure their property is legal. It's not the councils job to help them keep it legal.

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Yes, I agree with you that it's up to OP to operate legally and that'swhy she's done the right thing. What I meant was the council are being unhelpful in telling the woman not to leave given the ramifications.

OneLilacHedgehog · 13/09/2026 09:59

HavingABlether · 12/09/2026 09:08

Moving from 4 to 5 does, even if she's not paying rent. What you find hard to believe about the law is, in fact, irrelevant to the law.

No OP, not unreasonable. It sounds like different bits of the council are working against each other instead of a joined up approach. Underfunding will do that. (See also: HMRC). But you are responsible for abiding by the rules set for you, and you had no alternative.

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The different bits of the council are not working against each other. It is up to the OP to ensure their property is legal. It's not the councils job to help them keep it legal.

unlimiteddilutingjuice · 13/09/2026 09:50

Oh, Just read that she may not havevrecourse to public funds. That makes it so much harder. Im sorry OP, I dont know what to suggest in that case.

Original poster
Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:47

A quick update.

I didn’t hear anything more yesterday.

She was not in the lobby when my neighbour had her early morning walk.

OP posts:
Original poster
Poster555 · 13/09/2026 09:44

Blondeshavemorefun · 13/09/2026 09:15

7 other flats so 8 in all

all owned by you ?

tho I thought you said you had 4 and 5 wouid take uou over

or you mean 8 flats in building and yours had 4 bedrooms /tensnts

and means another 7 x 4so another posdible 28 people could let her into missing entrance but she can’t gain entry to your flat of 4 rooms

you need to be clear tothem all that they don’t buzz anyone in

or the flat who buzzes a lot their buzz/lock maybe needs to be dis armed - oh dear seems to be broken and uou fix it at a later date

I only own one large flat within the block.

I can only ask the tenants of other flats for assistance.

I am not sure how cooperative they will be. I am asking them to exclude a lone female from the building.

OP posts:
unlimiteddilutingjuice · 13/09/2026 09:40

The council are telling her to go back and wait for an eviction notice because they don't want to fulfill their legal obligation to house her temporarily while they consider whether they have a duty to house her as a homeless person.

The best thing you could do for her is to write a letter explaining that you've taken legal advice and understand that as the guest of a tenant، eviction proceedigns are not necessary. However, you will take steps to eviction the actual tenant if he continues to let her stay in breach of her tenancy agreement.
Yout tenant can write something explaining that, with regret, he can't allow her to stay any longer.
The guest can then take both letters over to the councils homeless persons unit and request they take a homeless person's application.

The guest can find further info on her housing rights here: https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness

Shelter icon

Homelessness advice - Shelter England

Find out about homeless applications, help and housing from the council. Advice if you're at risk of domestic abuse, sleeping rough, sofa surfing or from abroad

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/homelessness

Sereine · 13/09/2026 09:33

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 12:27

Ok don't help her then. It's just been my experience that she's more likely to stay away if she has other options.

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She's been to the council. Why do you assume that they have not gone through all the options with her?

Sereine · 13/09/2026 09:25

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 11:55

No, I'd just work with the council to get the woman legally housed. Either by me or someone else.

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How would you do that in a situation like this where the council has no duty to house the person concerned?

Blondeshavemorefun · 13/09/2026 09:15

Either way if keeps trying call police every time that she’s loitering or trying to gain entry illegally

Blondeshavemorefun · 13/09/2026 09:15

7 other flats so 8 in all

all owned by you ?

tho I thought you said you had 4 and 5 wouid take uou over

or you mean 8 flats in building and yours had 4 bedrooms /tensnts

and means another 7 x 4so another posdible 28 people could let her into missing entrance but she can’t gain entry to your flat of 4 rooms

you need to be clear tothem all that they don’t buzz anyone in

or the flat who buzzes a lot their buzz/lock maybe needs to be dis armed - oh dear seems to be broken and uou fix it at a later date

NigellaAwesome · 13/09/2026 08:55

Definitely do not let her stay. Our Council are an absolute nightmare and would definitely prosecute the landlord and seek to rescind the HMO licence, thereby making all your existing tenants homeless anyway. They would also then rely on the ‘fit and proper person’ criteria to rescind your other HMO licences.
I think you need to write to all of the tenants explaining about the HMO licence and that they cannot allow the woman back and the reason why. I would also write to the HMO Unit and cc the Homeless Team explaining the situation - she is not, nor ever has been a tenant, the incorrect advice given by the Homeless Unit, the steps you have taken to ensure the property does not go over the limit.
a family member had this - one of the tenants claimed he moved his girlfriend in, without the landlord’s knowledge or permission, and after they left (end of tenancy, all amicable) went to some renters no win no fee outfit and made a claim for a rent repayment order of a full years rent.

ForDeepBeaker · 13/09/2026 08:26

She needs to speak to her local homeless prevention team at the council. With the renters right act you would find it very difficult to lawfully evict the tenant who has allowed her to stay- especially as he is working with you. It isn’t fair on the other tenants either so you will have to stick to your guns.

Phoenixfire1988 · 13/09/2026 00:31

VointofPiew · 12/09/2026 09:44

Yeah I probably would. I'd not throw out anyone on the streets if I had the proximity and power to help them. That's not how I have been raised and I don't give a single shit about laws or policies. I care about humans. I'd let her stay off the books.

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Then you would be in a whole world of shit and landing yourself with thousands of pounds in fines and potential prosecution for running an illegal hmo ! Absolutely no body is going to risk that for a stranger , lets not pretend you would.
Have you been living under a rock? theres literally loads of documentaries about people like you that have taken people in and ended up being kicked out of their own home by the freeloader , theyve ended up homeless ,in debt and completely and utterly fuxked because its taken years to get them out .

RocketLollyPolly · 12/09/2026 22:42

Poster555 · 12/09/2026 21:41

My tenants have indicated that they will not let her in. They know she was trying to get in as she was using the buzzer to our flat.

I will ask them to be particularly careful in case she manages to get into the hallway and surprises them.

I doubt any of them would physically restrain her if she pushed past, but if she gets in by force I would ask the police to remove her. ( I don’t know if they would).

I will talk to the other occupants and ask them to be vigilant, but one flat in particular has an awful lot of visitors and if anyone buzzes their flat they normally just let them in, so not sure they would agree or remember.

The freeholder operates the security system and they won’t suspend the trade button as it’s used by post men, etc. The trade button operates in the morning Monday to Saturday, so fortunately it’s not currently an issue.

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It tell the other flats there’s a security risk as that might encourage them to remember.

Can you tell the freeholder there is someone trying to gain access to the building and ask what they will do to ensure they can’t? They could give the postman and milkman a fob.

Livelovebehappy · 12/09/2026 22:13

I bet the woman has exhausted all help provided by friends/family/authorities previously. Probabably an absolute nightmare, and due to her behaviour has alienated everyone once close to her, and is fast running out of options, so has attached herself to your tenant, who may have initially wanted to help, but then realised she’s beyond help. As other posters have said, time to be firm and tell him that his tenancy is also at risk unless he complies with your instructions to keep her out of the building.