AIBU to refuse a tenant's vulnerable guest staying in my HMO?

You couldn't throw anyone out without creasing your hair shirt.

Yes, this. Why on earth were the police pressurising you to take her in?

Op can't turn a blind eye even if she wanted to in this scenario. The police and the council are both involved and she would leave herself open to prosecution and very large fines.
Besides, the other occupants in the property don't want it and are being disturbed by the vulnerable person.
OP would be mad to allow the situation to continue!
The vulnerable person needs to find her own room in a different HMO or make other suitable arrangements for herself

Evicting the original tenant under the new legislation is no easy matter now section 21 has gone. LL would have to use anti social behaviour and the bar for that is (rightfully) high. Currently upto 6 months for a court hearing and upto 6 months of a bailiff. Plus ££££££ for a specialist eviction solicitor. Section 8 has both discretionary and mandatory. You would probably have to go for discretionary - misuse of the property - which could be difficult to prove.

Honestly you need to evict her friend. He's the one that keeps letting her back in.

You have to do it for the sake of the others living there. Just say all your tenants took in a vulnerable friend, seeing as you willingly accepted it with one?

Make it plain to whoever needs to know she was never your tenant and has never lived there. She isn't your responsibility and this guy is breaching his tenancy.

96% of us think YANBU @Poster555

The only thing I disagree with you on is I would be turning my phone firmly OFF tonight. It's not your problem to have to deal with.

Definitely throw her out. She's a stranger to you, and your own tenant doesn't want her there. Sounds like she damaged property. Wonder if she'd be desperate enough to steal too.
This is why we have charities and shelters. I can't believe she even had a key in the first place. I'd probably kick your tenant out at all for breaching contract in letting her live there and giving her keys. They'd be both out on their arses if it was me.

I am astonished at some on this thread so blithely suggesting that the OP should break the law and risk not inconsiderable penalties in order to accommodate a drunken troublemaker. Quite clearly, this is someone who shouldn’t even be in this country, and the kindest thing would be to return her to her home country and her family, if she doesn’t have a correct entry visa. I’m also amazed that someone can give an address where they have no right to live, and this then becomes their “official” address unless they - the person who has wrongly given the address in the first place- deign to remove it. OP, you have my sympathy - this is an awful situation, and nothing to do with you. Best of luck with resolving it.

Ignoring all the thread derailers.

Yanbu @Poster555 - you cannot be responsible for this individual and shouldn't be forced to turn your 4-person HMO into a 5-person one.

You need to spell it out in writing to all tenants. This will be helpful to combat the bullying from anyone putting pressure on your tenant to let her stay, and lets you be the "bad guy" for which I expect all actual tenants will be grateful.

"I am writing to formally clarify my position on the recent complications with the visitor (name) which have been disruptive to the smooth running of the property at (address)

(Address) is a 4-person HMO. Under UK law an HMO with 5 or more residents has different registration and licencing requirements to a 4-person HMO. This is one of the reasons why your tenancy agreements specify that visitors should only be staying for short periods. It is not appropriate for any of the residents to allow any visitor to stay who doesn't have another permanent place of residence where they keep their belongings. No visitor may be permitted to give (Address) as their address in any circumstances. It is absolutely inappropriate to try to force (Address) into being a 5-person HMO by these underhand means.

(Name) is not a resident of (Address) and due to the disruption that recent visits have caused, is no longer permitted to be a visitor either. Any resident who breaks their tenancy agreement by permitting visitors to start treating (Address) as home, move their posessions in, or in any other way jeopardises the status of (Address) as a 4-person HMO by facilitating an appearance that it might be becoming a 5-Person HMO will be evicted under Section 8 of the Housing Act on the grounds of Breach of Tenancy"

Lol

Seems like you've got a solution @Poster555
This kind poster is willing to offer her a place to stay.
You can stop being so "over involved" now.
Honestly, landlords could hand their tenants a winning lottery ticket and they'd still be the bad guy to some people on MN.

I think you just have to stand firm, OP. Evict the tenant if need be but hopefully it won't come to that. Difficult situation but LL's are not social services and they can't be with all the potential penalties for not complying with legislation.

I doubt very much that the council advised her to wait to be evicted. She doesn’t have a tenancy there. I think she’s been watching too many episodes of Call The Bailiffs or similar!

She probably told them she lives there and when they arrived they were pissed off to find they couldn't drop her at home as expected and had to find somewhere else safe to take her.

HMOs used to be called house shares and I would have been shafted if I'd not been able to find one when starting out in my career after Uni!

OP, I'd actually go full out and issue an eviction notice to the tenant who is legally in the house. That can then be shown to the friends who are applying pressure - it shows you are taking the whole thing seriously and maybe teach tenant a hard lesson

I'm guessing they've picked her up somewhere and trying to get someone to take her off the streets so she's not their problem.

Don't say that critically of the Police they are just trying to get her somewhere safe quickly and easily.

OP you are doing the right thing by supporting your tennant and protecting his home.

I think you should follow the legal advice you have received and make it clear to the actual tenant that he is jeopardising his own tenancy by repeatedly breaching his tenancy agreement. And signpost the vulnerable woman to Shelter or a local charity that works with homeless people perhaps.

I'm sorry, but their is absolutely no comparison between a homeless teen who is a genuine friend and an adult vulnerable woman who has caused damage, caused other tenants to complain and repeatedly comes to police attention. As well as, quite bluntly, being so fucked up that even the council refuse to help her - personally I don't think they should have the right to refuse people who are homeless.

Sadly, I know many such women and whilst I am sad and pissed off for them that they are vulnerable on the street or in otherwise dangerous situations (usually with dangerous men) instead of being supported by statutory agencies there is no way I would let them anywhere near my home unless they had several years of successful mental health, drug and alcohol treatment.

I actually think the male tenant is very vulnerable. The pressure on him to house a vulnerable adult in his own bedroom is extreme, given he doesn't seem to want to and I'm glad OP is in his corner. Those putting pressure on him should back off given none of them are offering for her to share their bedrooms. Very kind of OP to offer to talk to them.

I apologise. I saw HMO in the title and thought I’d take the chance to ask some of the HMO landlords if they feel guilty. Clearly they don’t 😅

I would start the procedure to evict him.
He needs to know that this is now going to have him lose his home.
Make sure you have texts spelling out to him she is not allowed to return and you will be starting the procedure to evict him too.

But it wouldn't remain off the books, would it? It's inevitable that one of the other occupants would report it, whereupon you'd start receiving hefty fines. How far does your philanthropy extend?

I’m specifically talking about the single tenant ones let to the council because I have directly experienced it. I’ve also worked in the field of homelessness through my own experience of being homeless and have lived in social housing as a child. I get the issues. The HMOs let to non-council tenants are sadly a totally different kettle of fish. I also have a lot of the non council ones as neighbours and they are fine. Whether you want to admit it or not, the anti social behaviour is coming from the ones let by the council to - mostly - single men. I’ve been threatened with murder against me and my kids for complaining about loud music from 3am. I’ve witnessed a violent attack. I’ve seen drug dealing daily for months. Flytipping, pissing in the street. This is all since the HMOs (private landlord but let to the council). Quiet street, ordinary people before that.

Can you all take your argument elsewhere and stop derailing the thread?