To be shocked at ‘school readiness’

Same. My kids had this cracked long before the end of nursery. Loads of kids are at nursery from 12 months old.

Not dismissing what the OP said and agree most of that behaviour is shocking from a 4yo in any setting.

But school, even play based, is not the same as nursery. Firstly, the staff to children ratio is completely different, so the expectations placed on reception children in terms of self sufficiency are massively higher. Then there’s the uniform, which in many schools is still a button up shirt and tie. I’d be uncomfortable wearing that all day but my 4yo has no choice.

Either the first two years should be more nursery-like, or just let them start school at 6 like other countries.

And not all behaviour is SEN.

But kids have always started school young, so I never understand this argument.

It almost seems unbelievable to those who don't see it, but for people working in schools we see it get worse every year. I have family members with DCs aged 3 and they are still in nappies, drink from bottles, always have a dummy in their mouth and spend hours in front of a screen all day. Any gentle suggestions to toilet train or teach how to use a cup falls on deaf ears, and they insist that the DC will do it when they are ready. I am already worried for them starting school.

A 4 year old should surely be capable of putting a coat on, hanging it up, using a knife and fork and going to the toilet. This isn’t to do with school starting age. If they weren’t at school, the majority would be in a childcare setting anyway.

ETA. children have started school at the same age for generations. Why were previous generations able to do these basic tasks but children now can’t?

I'm a Reception TA and I find it hard (not impossible!) to believe there are so many ill-prepared children in one class but there are definitely quite a few in my current group. I think it often comes from parents still seeing them as babies and struggling to face them growing up. Eg putting the coat on for them rather than teaching them to try themselves, cutting up their food for them, allowing them to choose for themselves what to do all the time etc. It's all about the parents' needs - they aren't doing the child any favours and actually making the transition to school much harder / more confusing for them.

A lot of 4 year olds find the large school environment very overwhelming at first. I expect some will have these skills but go blank for a bit while they get used to being at school and start to improve as they settle.

I am sure you then made sure that what happens at home does so at school.

I am not convinced that applies to all of the children the OP refers to. Or that the response would have been the same as yours.

Both dh and I worked ft all the way through. Our kids are more independent than those whose parents did various other combinations, largely because we wouldn't have functioned otherwise. Even as teens, I have friends who think it's awful that I make my dc do chores and make their own lunches etc. One the dc is adhd, so it's even more important they learn to cope. There were many, many losses along the way.

Again, as a teacher you should know that not all SEN is obvious when we are talking about 4 year olds. Plenty of children with SEN don't have a diagnosis at 4.

Schooling yes, but the majority of children are at nursery/pre-school on a fulltime basis. Where we live children start school at six, virtually all children are in fulltime childcare for years before that. Our daughter is the only child at her pre-school who attended part time.

This is what happens when you start school so young.

I imagine it’s a perfect storm of kids who are being brought up by youtube and/ or kids who never, ever get told no. Although I am surprised that neither of those two groups of parents are availing themselves of their 30 hours free childcare so that a nursery can teach about using a peg and so on.

My children didn't go to day nursery as I was a SAHM (decades ago). I would be genuinely interested to know if children who've been at a day nursery or in the care of a childminder are more likely to have these basic life skills than those who go to school without any preschool experience. I find it hard to believe that hard pressed childminders and nursery workers are putting children's coats on for them and not teaching them to do it themselves.

I can’t understand how, in a generation, things have changed so much. We need to look at what has changed between then and now. The majority of children are in childcare from a young age now (often from the age of 1). Are childcare settings not teaching them how to do basic things like put on a coat? They can’t surely be happily picking up coats from floors and helping every single child all the time. I agree that it’s a parent job, but I suppose so many parents both work full time that they may not have time.

I just got told off for saying the same. I totally agree with you.

Our daughter had been at school about two weeks when we were called in due to concerns, she has CP so we thought they maybe had some more queries about that.

Turns out she couldn’t put her coat on, also couldn’t put her wellies on and needed help with buttons and zips after the toilet. She had been doing all of things on her own since she was three, but she figured out she could get the teacher to do it for her.

My Ds started school in Germany at age 6, but attended Kindergarten from age 3 where expectations were exactly same as the uk for children starting in reception.

Sadly, yes.

My kids are teens now and I was amazed how few of their friends said please or thank you, or knew how to sit and eat at table, when they came round after school, even when they were about 8

It’s phones. The parents are on their phones rather than doing the hard and admittedly at times tedious job of parenting small children.

Read an article that a professor has actually linked widespread smartphone use to the falling birth rate which makes sense. So more AI fewer people. Future looks weird.

I can completely believe this OP. Doesn’t surprise me at all. There is a massive epidemic of useless parenting at the moment. The decline had started well before Covid. No discipline, no consequences, no accountability. Just endless capitulation and encouragement of their child’s whims, desires and bad behaviour.

My 3 year old has just started nursery this week (turned 3 end of July).

The teachers appear pleasantly surprised that she can draw faces, count objects up to 10 and name lots of different animals.

This isn't a boast - I honestly thought this stuff was pretty normal but they're not just being polite in praising her. I can see the difference with some of the kids just by being there doing the settling in sessions.

Unless there's disability/SEN involved, it's quite shocking really.