To be shocked at ‘school readiness’

I understand probability and statistics. I also didn't say that every single child must have SEND but OP can't be confident that none one of them do because they are only 4 and she has only been teaching them for 2 weeks.

Agreed. Saying they are too young for school is also missing the point. reception is age 4 right?

At age 4 I was not at nursery or reception in England as I was living there temporarily , although I had been at nursery in Scotland when I was 3.

But i learnt lots at home with family so by 4 I could speak to adults, read, hang up a coat, pull my pants and so on. I was able to slot into Primary one in Scotland just after my 5th birthday when I moved back up.

Whether they’re in school or nursery or even at home most of these kids should be able to recognise their name and other things OP mentioned they can’t do.

Of course some 4 year olds have always struggled in reception or kindergarten but for 90% of the class to be having these issues when they didn’t 20 years ago is telling us something about parenting.

ETA: I see there’s discussion of SEN. All kids are different and have varying levels of needs irrespective of that but FWIW

I was SEn myself - I was dyspraxic so was very slow to walk and my writing was shaky at 5 and couldn’t tie my laces (back then everyone else could by that age) despite having a high reading ability. But I was still able to do a lot of these basic things Op mentioned.

This is just weird, it’s much easier to have a toilet trained child than nappies surely? And cheaper.

This is rubbish though- children don't stay at home until they are 7 in these countries, they might not call it school but they are in education which is very much like our Reception classes, offering play based learning etc. Do you think those countries that don't start school until 7 delay toilet trining, manners and dressing themselves until they are 7 as well? A 4 or 5 year old should be able to put their coat on, should know some basic manners and be able to go to the toilet by themselves.

But basic things like hanging up a coat or putting it on, shutting toilet doors in public toilets (school toilets are public), and sitting down when told are things parents should be teaching. 'Please' and 'thank you' are more difficult, in that some cultures do not use these expressions but tone and posture to imply them, but they can be taught in school.
Doesn't surprise me, though. I have come across parents who think it is okay to let a child draw on the wall etc. - in someone else's house.

Or one might think the OP is raising a valid concern.

The worst parenting trend I’ve seen is the ‘my kids can do no wrong and can do as they please’ approach. A few dc used to be brought up like that but the majority weren’t. I am not so sure these days based on what I see and I believe it transcends class and cultures - it just manifests differently in the parents.

We don’t have a society where adults can say anything to other people’s dc anymore and there is no culture pressure to conform. The pp’s dd who was getting the teacher to do her buttons for her - she’s picking that up from what she is surrounded by - if it was more independent dc in her vicinity she would’ve been doing them herself becuse it would feel embarrassing to not be able to do it herself.

I can totally believe this OP. I worked in an infant school for over ten years and it was eye opening! The lunch hall was carnage. A lot of kids had absolutely no idea how to even hold a spoon, let alone a knife and fork and would dive into their roast dinner with their bare hands. Dropping food all over the floor. They had absolutely no idea re any table manners.
I generally worked in yr1 and yr2 but when I was moved to reception because of a high number of ‘needy children’, I was absolutely over it. Big five year olds not toilet trained, no idea how to put their coat on, the list went on and on. Oh and the behaviour. I left after all those years.
When a family member’s child was about to start nursery, she asked how to teach phonics etc. I told her that the teachers will be far more thankful if you just teach the basics ….. how to put a coat on, say please and thank you etc etc and leave the teaching of phonics etc to them.

It is much easier to learn reading and writing in Finnish, as there is a one-to-one correspondence between letters and sounds. So compared to the UK they learn the basics of literacy and then move on, when English children are still learning the difference between wear, where, and were.
Finland is something of an outlier.

Most kids will have been in a childcare setting from a young age.

I've both worked when mine were young and been a SAHM. My kids when I was a SAHM were more independent than the one who went to nursery full time, so I'm not sure it's down to lazy parenting. I found when I was working, things like letting them dress independently went to hell, because if you absolutely have to be out that door at 7.45am, you'll jam their arms into a coat just be off, ditto getting breakfast down them and stuffing their stuff into bags for them. And at the end of the day there's so little time together and everyone is tired.
I think this may just be a side effect of modern life.

Talk about an exaggeration or what? Have 90% of children not went to preschool? The government provide free early years education so you would assume they’d at least learn there as parents are so crap today.
Nothing to do with both parents working to put food on the table.
There will always have a few children who have developmental delays, it not that they weren’t taught how to do it, they have coordination problems.

i agree, but why is it happening? What has caused this sociologically?

Lol, please use Google before replying, it'll save you looking plain silly.

It is the parent’s fault, their parents are what 35 ish on average, firmly in millennial camp and very much had their adult lives with social
media.

Why make the effort? Why should they bother if they know the school will sort it out? Much more important everyone looks good on photos. And people are very keen to say it might be SEN nowadays. And it might be but then you will have parents who think if they might be SEN parents get all this extra help why not my child.

It’s just another indication of the be kind, don’t judge you don’t know what’s going on in someone’s life. Which is all true but if you are a parent and you do fuck all parenting you should be judged.

The same parents will be complaining they don’t have 10 minutes a day to read with their child shortly. Why have children if you have no time to raise them?

And what about kids who are school ready and their parents think they are going to school to learn? Do they just sit there waiting for teaching staff to try and get the others to hang up a coat? Because not all parents are useless.

Well the statistics don't back this up.

Surely anyone who understands probability and statistics could confidently state that 90% of a random selection of children do not have SEN.

Why would this be shocking? In Canada they go to kindergarten at the same age and it is the most educated country in the western world.

These children sounds like their parents have really failed them. It has nothing to do with the age.

We have reception children in nappies, not sen children.

I'm surprised several posters have asked if the area is deprived. Like a previous poster I find I'm much more likely to encounter children like the OP describes in more affluent areas. The children in more deprived areas are in my experience more likely to be more independent and capable.

The teachers responding to the thread are pretty much all confirming the first post.

It seems crazy to me as school readiness was such a big part of my daughters’ nursery and this wasn’t that long ago (youngest year 3). All the nursery kids in the pre school room were putting on their own coats, eating with cutlery and scraping plates, sitting down for story time. I can’t see how a whole class can’t manage those basic things unless something has gone quite wrong.

So many with these problems is unusual. There are always a few that are not school ready every year. Are you in a very deprived area?

It really shows where sure start and all those other early interventions that have been cut to the bone filled the gaps.

There are the phone obsessed parents who spend all day on their phones and ignore their children.

Most children would be in day nursery/ childcare so should have school readiness. Although I do wonder if corners have been cut here. Several day nurseries around us are very "put them back in nappies/ pull ups" if they are having accidents in day nursery due to staffing pressures. It makes toilet training very difficult if you are working full time and only have a weekend or week to "crack" toilet training. A day nursery my friend works in has actually asked all parents send children in leggings/ joggers (no dungarees or tights or clothes with buttons or ties) and slip on or Velcro shoes to make changing children easier. Which means children attending her day nursery have never had to do up buttons which is fine if your school uniform is polo shirts and trousers but so many academies insist on shirts/ ties/ proper trousers.

I do think modern life if also contributing. With 2 parents working flat out I think many parents are just too exhausted and time poor to do the tedious teaching and practice required for some of these skills. Many parents are rushing out the door every day to do a nursery drop at 7.45, to drive to work and be at a desk for 9 there isn't time to be allowing "sammy" 10 minutes to put his own coat on. So the practice isn't there. It's much quicker to put Sammy's coat on yourself so you can be out the door. Same with eating, it's so much quicker and more convenient to serve children food they can eat in bite size pieces than serve it, let them faff about cutting it (usually making a mess), to reheat because it's cold, dinner takes 15 minutes longer on an already tight schedule (think nursery pick up at 5.30, tea at 6/ 6.15, bath time at 6.45, storytime and bedtime by 7/7.30. Whist we need both parents to pretty much work full time to afford to live unfortunately something has to give and it seems school readiness is one of those.

If one were being cynical, one might believe that these threads are a set up to rage bait and provide a perfect platform for judgy ranting about other people's parenting and ableist comments against SEN children.

If one were being cynical, of course.

Well that's not true for a start.
Compulsory school age in the act is 5, most of these kids are just 4.

100 years ago a large portion of parents would have been illiterate and unable to teach any kind of letter recognition.