To be shocked at ‘school readiness’

It’s true and of course you will get the more able children who have been ready for school physically and emotionally for a year already - they are the pupils who say they want to do “proper” more formal learning and they are bored. Can’t win!

It’s a massive shame, but you are unreasonable to be shocked

a lot of these kids have grown up with an iPad stuck in there face the second they wake

imagine how they will parent their own children when that’s who they’ve been raised themselves

Precisely, my whole career was an hour commute every day, no wfh. This was normal. Parents had short maternity too.

and I have said 76548 times at this point that I'm not saying every single child is SEND. My original point is that she can't say that NONE of the children in question have SEND, not that all of them may have SEND.

Apart from putting on their own coat, this doesn't seem that bad to me. Perhaps the school system needs to adjust its expectations of what it wants children to do. Play based learning is shown to work best. School refusal is at an all time high, maybe if they didn't suddenly find themselves in a bootcamp having to follow rules at the whim of a person they've never met before, they would feel more emotionally safe to go to school.

How strange. I work in a Primary School and have not seen anything like what you’re saying.

Exactly

But surely most children have been to some kind of nursery before school nowadays? Seems odd to me that they're not learning these things there. Maybe I've just been lucky to work in nurseries where these things are taught.

It might be area dependent. I’m in a middle-class bubble in SW London and the children around here are well behaved, they eat at restaurants without screens, they play nicely at the playground, they say please/thank you, they don’t scream, etc.
Trying to think about other factors:
Many SAHM but most children are at nursery part-time for socialisation.
Many no-UPF / organic households.
Weekends are spend outdoors, children do sports from a young age.

@sittingonabeachbut many do hence my use of the word normally…highly unusual that 90% of dc in a class didn’t attend a setting prior to reception.

Sorry, the point was that most children in her class were similar or were there by half term

My granddaughter is 5. She started last year. She was school ready and they were given a list of things to work on over the summer before starting.
Eg independent toilet/washing hands, put on and take off coat and shoes ( they just go in PE kit on the right day). Answer to name , eg register. Also use cutlery and/or be able to open their own packed lunch.

That's true but surely not the point of this thread. OP is shocked at the lack of school readiness of the many kids who do not have SEN. It's not a SEN thread, it's a NT and parenting thread.

Not all schools have nurseries and even if they do not all children go to them

Ive taught in a "normal" area of Berkshire since 2010 in Reception, Years 1 and 2 and the change in that time is staggering.

You used to be able to offer "positive praise" for those that wouldn't talk on top of you/whilst reading a story, SEN chilsren aside. Now a screen is the only thing that holds their attention long enough and this whilst all reforms eg continous provision until year 2 and less demands etc etc

You keep saying this, continually missing the point that the problems OP describes cannot be explained by undiagnosed SEN because it is vanishingly unlikely that all the children in her class have undiagnosed SEN.

I completely agree. My newly 4 year old started school last week. The teacher asked to speak to me yesterday and said how independent she was because she can do her own coat and shoes, find her name and follow instructions. She is one of the few who will sit still for the duration of a story.

It does worry me how she’ll progress given what I can see of the other children. After a week she is disappointed they’ve not had a phonics lesson yet or had chance to write their names.

I have 2 older children (one of which was a Covid baby) and definitely seen a change in how children are starting school in that time.

My youngest has not long turned 2 and needed to use the toilet at school and one of the SLT seemed shocked he was in pants already!

Normally schools have nurseries so it’s odd it’s just become apparent now in reception.

@user1471429429the time pressure point isn’t just about commuting though plus plenty of parents don’t wfh.

How strange. That doesn't sound like the 4 year olds I see at all.

What is familiar is the "parents today are shitter than they used to be" trope. We've been hearing that for years. When I was a kid, children were doomed because of increasing numbers of working mums. Somehow my generation have managed to become functional adults despite this.

I'm sure there'll be a new reason to criticise parents in a few years.

Did these children not go to Nursery? I work in a Preschool and they leave us able to put on shoes and coats, and do them up etc. Very few can't recognise their name in print by the time they leave. We teach please and thank you from the very first day. Obviously they learn a lot more than this - I'm just answering your original post.

💯, OP. These are very basic things that all parents should be teaching and modeling to their children. Unfortunately I think too many see schools and teachers as an extension of parenting.

Over the years, I’ve considered retraining as a teacher because I love children and think I’d make a good teacher. But honestly, seeing the way the profession is ripped to shreds - especially on Mumsnet, and the entitlement of parents, I don’t think I have the patience for that element of it, which is sad.

But it didnt used to be like this. My friend is on her 23rd year of primary teaching and she said since the rise of smart phones it is getting worse and worse. Kids being unable to speak a proper sentence. Loads not using the toilet properly or eating with knives and forks. From a range of backgrounds the same issues.
Bad at following basic instructions, sitting still, looking at books. And the level of fitness, not just overweight but unfit kids that are driven everywhere.
She thought it might have been covid but these kids are worse and obviously born well past any lockdowns.

I work in school and have seen huge changes in the capabilities of children over the last 30 years.

Speech and language is much lower these days, independence is lower, practical skills like using scissors, holding a pencil, using a knife and fork, doing a zip or buttons and there are still plenty of 9 and 10 year olds asking adults to tie shoe laces, early literacy skill are lower eg. children have no repertoire of rhymes and stories they know by heart, behaviour is less conventional and social skills are less advanced- there's more fighting, more hurting each other etc. and children have less respect for their teachers and are more likely to refuse to do as asked, be rude to adults etc.

Parents have changed too!

I know people who do this. They are hard to get hold of for work queries.