To be shocked at ‘school readiness’

In 1926, when it had been compulsory for children to be in full-time education from the age of 5 for over 50 years? I don't think so.

'Between 1851 and 1900, there was a rise in British male literacy from 69.3% to 97.2%, while for the female part of the population, the improvement in literacy rates was even more pronounced, from 54.8% to 96.8%.' https://www.qmul.ac.uk/news/latest-news/2020/hss/charles-dickens-and-the-push-for-literacy-in-victorian-britain.html

Im a childminder and I agree! Parents do not help they think its down to me/school most of my next steps are simple things such as hanging your coat up when you come in and 3 weeks later still not getting it. I think we live in a world that's too fast where parents rush them out of the door and just do everything for them. Ive had 4 years olds just go to school who were still being carried like babies to the door!

That’s unusual. I’m from a deprived area. Most people can’t wait until they’re 3 to get them into nursery school. All the mam’s go for coffee and a bun. 😅

I’d say you are a wonder step-mother and step-grandmother to your SD and her child , do you enjoy spending time with them and facilitate their grandfather to spend time with his daughter and grandchild ?

I definitely recognise this. I have to attend private hospitals for DS, as he’s health problems he is often switched crossed. I am at times appalled by the children and their parents, the parents are scared to discipline the children or they couldn’t be bothered, they often look fed up they had them.
This is an older parent issue over younger parents.

My mother worked in a rural area. Low income, not ethnically or socially mixed at all. Maybe that was the difference.

I've always worked in secondary inner city schools. Behaviour varies so much from school to school that it is very difficult to compare how it might have changed over time.

People don't want to hear it, people don't want to believe it, people don't want to think about it

Over 70% of mothers in the UK are in paid work.
The average time spent working away from home is 6 hours 42 minutes a day.

Source Office for National Statistics.

Women are knackered. Call it what you like, double burden, second shift, whatever, people have been warning about this for decades. Unsurprisingly, they foresaw the consequences for children. Various studies have also been published recently about the impossible demands of juggling a working life and a family life, all generally find this makes parents (especially mothers) stressed and less emotionally present which impacts on child development. Here's an article from 2003 sounding the warning alarm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3267561.stm

The OP isn't lying. The situation is pretty desperate now we're the second generation in.

This 100%. Wish this post could be pinned up to the top of this thread, it’s absolutely correct.

Maybe not specific interventions but schools have had their funding cut dramatically over the years. What once would have been a standard part of school will now be an 'intervention'

But children arrived at school with these skills already. School played no part in the early teaching of children to use knives and forks, read their name, put their coat on or have reliable toilet habits. Parents did it.

I'm retired from secondary, but nearly 30 yrs ago I was responsible for primary liaison and I recall primary colleagues beginning to see this.

They had children screaming the place down when being expected to sit at a table in the dining hall, screaming the place down when being expected to use cutlery...

There were twins who didn't know their own names - they'd been used to answer to "Hey you!" or The twins".

A few years later, my DH became a grandfather. We had dinner out with his daughter, SIL and their then 4 yr old child.

DH was appalled at the child's lack of table manners - she was being allowed to eat a Cadbury's Creme Egg at the table while we were having our main course.

At one point, she began to cough and coughed the damned creme egg right across the table onto my plate. (With hindsight, I guess she might have choked to death otherwise.)

The daughter obtained a high-powered job abroad and the child attended an 'International' nursery and then school.

One time, the parents started enthusing about how the school was teaching their child 'lovely manners'.

DH: "Is that not your job?"

That did not go down well.

Thinking about it, I had children at secondary who couldn't tie a tie - I remember teaching them...I'm not just talking about the girls. Ditto shoelaces.

The maths department was teaching them to tell the time on an analogue clock, but I supposed that's a slightly different matter.

Not many of our intake this year attended a pre-school. We are in a deprived area and many if our parents don’t work.

We have about 70% who are able to do all these tasks and about 15% who can manage some of these tasks. So a completely different situation.

It varies each year but it is in my view due to parents not understanding a child needs to learn independence and treating them as babies for too long.

Throughout human history, and much of the world today, the majority of parents have been teens and young people.

The teen parent panic is a load of crap and statistically - given the increase in parental age and drop in teen/young pregnancy - is not responsible for wider decline in children’s behaviour we’re seeing.

Is the same kind of 'shame' that justified the church taking away babies from their teenage Mums that didn't agree to it? Do you mean those good old days?

Following on from my previous post re: nappies, I think cutlery is a similar phenomenon.

60 years ago there wasn't plentiful processed baby food in the shops, and children mostly ate what the parents did once they were weaned. Therefore they had to start to learn to use cutlery earlier.

I don't think it's laziness or poor parenting, I think our modern world where we, rightly, strive for comfort and ease has an unintended consequence of quite literally babying children.

Disposable nappies have a lot to answer for. (Special needs aside) in the days of towel nappies you wouldn’t see many 3 years still 💩 in a nappy. Toilet training was expected much earlier.
Nowadays children are in nappy’s in the weeks before preschool then there is a rush to train them.
Again, Society expectations have created this too as working parents aren’t home to toilet training earlier.

I can completely believe this. Decades ago I was utterly gobsmacked to be told by a teacher that she had two girls in her class who talked all the time in spite of being clearly told that this was disruptive to the whole class. (Probably year 4, so 8 or 9 years old.) Eventually she had to get them to sit in different parts of the classroom. The mother of one came in to beg for them to be allowed to sit together again because they were so upset. What made this so particularly surprising was that the mother was herself a teacher. Solidly middle class family. I often wonder how that girl turned out. She'd be in her late 30s now so may well have children.

Maybe not specific interventions but schools have had their funding cut dramatically over the years. What once would have been a standard part of school will now be an 'intervention'

Sounds like it's a story straight of the Daily Express!

I remember this kept things together, no one would dare to send a child to school dirty and the vicar or priest would sometimes their to guide a family in the right direction. The mothers union etc to support young families. This is not an age issue of parents I think people forget that they are raising adults to be mannerly and that cleanliness matters.

My DM was best friends with a child of a prostitute she stood up for her at school and my Gran fed and clothed her and made sure the child wasn’t ostracised for her poor start (this was the 49s/59s) The community rallied around the child, we are no longer that type of society

Yes, there is but being 'gentle' is that middle ground. Being gentle with your young children is not exactly an extreme proposition!

That's just ridiculous. There are plenty of boys with long hair who are perfectly well behaved. Sounds like your colleague was just prejudiced.

You are forgetting that in former socialist countries children went to kindergarden which started as young as 12 months, and lasted till school started age, and some of them were overnight ones. And in kindergardens thy had a very rigid routine including learning sessions where they sat at the desk doing tasks. And had to eat, use the toilet and dress themselves independently.

It was not compulsory, of course, but since all parents had to work most of the kids went to them. There was no "profit seeking" but you could get arrested for not working ("tunejadstvo")

Every £1 spent on early interventions saves something like £2 down the line in public savings. But I guess it's easier to put the blame on shit parents, SEN, iPads etc than demand change or even vote accordingly

There was no money spent on interventions 60 years ago and children started school with basic
manners, able to use cutlery, and manage to be almost perfectly continent without nappies. Able to read their own name and put their coat on their own peg. And the majority of families were much poorer then.

What's changed?

Yeah. Me too. Feels a bit rage-beauty, let’s slag of the parents of today-vibe. I say this as a parent of a reception age sen kid. Can get shoes on, please/thank you, get coat on… I dunno might not close the toilet door and hates the sound of the flush but he’s a little kid not the finished article.