What am I doing wrong regarding school mums?

Be a bit more quiet. Smile, stay standing near and avail yourself of conversation, yes.

Start conversation sometimes.

It is rude to exclude another but equally rude to interupt your own discussion with a person - to cut it short and introduce another bistander.

Chill and if you connect warmly with one other petson per day, that is brilliant, if not no one thinks badly of you.

Sometimes ask another parent to share coffee, or to yours before school pick up for a play (toddlers similar in age).

Probably the two mums chatting didn't realise that they were leaving you out. Being in the situation where this happens feels like ages to the one not involved but moments to those talking. As you introduced them, they were likely just being polite to each other.

I can feel awkward when others are chatting away and apparently ignoring me and I have had those negative thoughts you describe. But experience tells me it's all in my head - act lively and interested and others take an interest. Some people won't like you, just as you won't like some others, but overall people are mostly open to most other people.

Chatty confident people have more friendly experiences- you can fake it till you make it.

OP what do you do when there is a group chatting that you feel excluded from? Every person In that group bar the 1st one or two have needed to include them selves by joining the group. Have you tried including yourself instead of waiting for someone to include you? Also the park bench situation, I would not have been to bothered about that. 1stly it shows that you do have mum friends as you were sat chatting to one. When you invited the other to sit down and talk, this is the 1st time they have spoken to each other and find things in common, them chatting may have nothing to do with excluding you and next time when the 3 of you meet it will be different. Also when people are chatting do you wait until someone has stopped speaking, I know that a bit of a silly question but sometimes you can wait forever being polite and not get a word in edgeways and then feel excluded.

OP you say you have lots of friends elsewhere so why does this bother you so much? Not everyone will like you and that's normal. Other people do like you so why does it matter?

@Schooolm Hi OP again, reading your update I have a further thought… agree with a PP where they said call the rude one out. Just casually wonder up and make a comment about your meet ups over summer. She’s the bloody rude one, not you. Please dont think there is something up with you, you sound very inclusive, where some of us are perhaps pretty insular and that’s their own small minded issues.

I think here, you need your feelings validated and I can tell you I get what you are saying in these posts. Other posters telling you to ‘get over it’ or ‘you’re reading into it too much’ is useless commentary. You feel how you feel and that’s how it is. It really resonates with me because I see a similar bunch of strangely cold people are our gates…. But as time goes on I’m continuing to have quick little polite interchanges with people and slowly getting to know people and finding some friendly!

I think what’s galling for you is your meet ups over the summer with this odd woman and her lack of acknowledgement of you in front of these other women. It’s utterly bizarre and rude. Trust your judgement on her now… Call her out on it if you feel able (I defo would not let her get away with it) and step back from her… she sounds quietly transactional (for her own needs only) and doesnt make you feel good. Make sure she knows you have noticed her behaviour and stay friendly, keep your head up and find a couple of Mums who are decent…. There will be one or two who you could get along with, am sure of it. X

I don't think you're doing anything wrong, some people are just rude.

If it's Y2, where have you been until now? Perhaps they've been friends for two years already and they don't know you as well.

OP, people are rude and have lost the art of conversation and small talk. Its not you. Basic manners are lacking these days

OP - people are like dolly mixtures, some you like, some you don’t. Some people can act like dicks whilst others are nice. I also think for the most part many parents just want to come and go. Of course, some people will click and great! But I think for the most part, parents just want to collect and go. It comes across that you are expecting more from these people than they are likely to give. I’ve learnt some parents can just be offish, they probably think the same about me but honestly meh. I’m curious why you’re seeking a greater connection than they are prepared to give? There’s nothing wrong in seeking connection, it’s the most human thing to do and is tied to overall health, but perhaps you should be investing elsewhere?

I recognise it can feel shit and hurt. But if you are able to just focus on getting the kids and start reflecting on how and who your energy is invested in you may find you don’t become so downhearted when you don’t get the response/connection you deserve.

I had the same experience OP. I tried talking to other mums, then realised nobody would voluntarily speak to me, it was only if I made the effort. I gave up around year 2 and just waited near the back. I think a lot of the parents had grown up in the same area and all knew each other, some had older kids and already had friendship groups sorted.

I'd had a positive experience at nursery an made some long term mum friends, I'd assumed school would be the same. WRONG! My dc has started secondary now, and most of the primary class went to another school so our paths will never cross.

Don't assume there's anything wrong with you. People can be weirdly hostile, or have social anxiety, or just want to collect and go.

That's just rude! I wouldn't see her anymore if I were you. Sounds like middle school : popular girl might hang out with not so popular neighbour girl but pretends she doesn't know her in school. Awful behaviour.

A poster up-thread has remarked that not everyone is conscious of having excluded another person from the conversation. Conversation is a skill which sadly is not taught any more and so many people no longer know how to engage in it. In a proper conversation people "pass the ball" backwards and forwards between themselves. When a new person joins its good manners to introduce the stranger "This is my friend Jill" so you know who you are talking to.

Sadly people no longer teach these simple rules to their children as my grandmother taught me. She was born in the Edwardian age when ladies were taught how to make conversation and to pay equal attention to others in the group. So the incident you are describing just sounds to me just a little woeful ignorance of basic good manners.

Conversation in these circumstances where people meet casually is also intended to be light and inconsequential. Its really just a social acknowledgement that you have seen and recognised the other person. A sort of verbal wave. So if you are coming over as too intense people will avoid because they don't have the headspace for involved conversations when they are dropping off children and rushing elsewhere.

In the days of young gels going to finishing school agree but we are talking about a school playground with, depending on class sizes 80-120 people collecting their DC on an average day?

Its simply not possible to tie yourself in knots acknowledging everyone , although there was a bonkers poster on here who said she did.

Even then it would be superficial smile/ hello not a full chat as you would be there all day.
Theres also the skill of knowing when NOT to chat or involve yourself and I think this is what Op is missing over the 2 threads she has on this
The issue is the blanket " be friends with school mums" not letting things develop and friendships develop naturally
I do agree with your last point, its very off putting

If you saw a mum in the playground holding a sign “I need friends” would you go over and befriend her? Or would you think “I haven’t the emotional energy to hand-hold that stranger”.

The rule for making friends generally is to be friendly to others, but never act as though you need, want or expect anything from them in return.

I don’t know if it’s a British thing, or more universal, but people don’t want to get ‘trapped’ into social obligations.

Your bench situation is a good example. You expected that in return for moving over, this other lady would then engage you in conversation. She didn’t, so you walked away. What message did that send?

People can sense this sort of thing, even subconsciously there’s a recognition “that person over there is trying repeatedly to interact with me. Why? What does she want from me? What am I getting myself into with her? Best just not go there”.

Instead, focus on just showing the best side of your character without caring about making friends. Be friendly and helpful, no strings attached. Don’t hover near people trying to make eye contact or strike up conversation, just smile as you walk on by. Make room for somebody on a bench but then don’t try to force a conversation.

Act like a friendly person who doesn’t need friends, and people will come to you. Act like you’re desperate for them and people will run a mile.

To add to my last post though, I have just read through all your posts OP and given you’re fine in situations outside school, I’d say there’s also a good chance these mums are just cliquey cows! We all know they exist from our own time in school. If they are being deliberately rude and exclusionary then they they’re not a group worth being a part of.

@Schooolm I hope you find your people among the school mums. It's hard when you have been brought up to show consideration and have manners and then you're among people who haven't learnt/forgotten how to behave. It's nothing snobbish or high brow about it- quite the contrary- it's showing respect and consideration to fellow human beings. Because when we don't people feel left out like you did. Even my ds16 who's autistic know this and for him nothing is innate so he has to learn intellectually how a certain behaviour can make someone feel a certain way whereas I would think nt adults should be able to have empathy enough to figure it out for themselves if they haven't been taught.

By year two, often people have made friends with people who they just get along well with.

I think a part of me is upset as I would never exclude anyone.

You know, people spend far longer thinking about themselves than other people do. There's a very high chance that you have, by accident, excluded others.

You've said "hello" to someone and not noticed the person who was checking their phone was talking to them a second before you came. You were chatting in a group and were distracted by someone waving when another person joined and were the only person not to say "hello". You walked past the person who'd stood up to greet you because you were thinking about the phone call you needed to make at work. Someone was telling you something personal when the new person stopped and said "hi", hoping you'd invite them to join in the talk, but you couldn't because it was private...
This sort of thing happens, and we don't notice because we know we have reasons to do what we did - but they don't know.

I don’t think you sound intense. You sound like a polite person who is thoughtful and wants to make friends. Sadly so many people are very self absorbed and don’t think like you. There’s nothing you can do just keep being yourself and focus on the people who treat you nicely.

I really disagree with this
Op is showing that she has high expectations of herself and projects this onto others
Starting 2 threads, explaining that she has better manners than others, expects,yes expects people to be her friends and what she posts is highly intense and a sign of needing external validation
It is very off putting to others, because immediately there is a strange feeling of expectation
Expectation " be my friend"
Then " be available to me when I expect it"
Then " why are you talking to her, Im your friend"
Do you see where Im going with this ? it becomes very intense and pressured

Ive been on the other side of this and it becomes impossible to meet the other persons constant increasing needs if you are expected to fill their cup when they have no way of filling it themselves iyswim
People sense this and its very off putting
Its always they are cows/ bitches but this is exactly the type of behaviour that those with no internal locus of control display
Most mums are going to pick up their kids and have a chat, its pretty superficial
Just go along, keep it light and non intense
I write this on every school mum thread

If you dont think someone is very nice why the hell are you chasing them then? 😉

Why are people being called self-absorbed when you only have the OPs version and because they are not doing what the OP expects, they are in the wrong?

Why are you pursuing friendships with people you dont like and who you think hsve no manners?
Genuine question?
It doesnt make sense