To say my DS cant keep missing school because the school “cant cope”??

Unless, they are actually doing what's best for the child and the parents are collaborating and understand the situation and are mutually agreeing to it.

We have been through 2x mainstream and 4x specialist schools and the best one always communicated with us like a team, so sometimes we would collect them and other times we'd wait a bit longer to see how it played out... But if they know your child well and know it's not going to get better that day... Why does it need to be an exclusion at all? It's just an early pick-up and try again tomorrow, or even later that day! That's not necessarily a permanent solution but it was totally necessary for our child on their first 6 months at a new school.

Actually, there are other avenues. A child does not have to be excluded. The school are perfectly able to raise a safeguarding issue and determine that they have not got the resources to keep the child, or other children and/or staff safe, and they can ask the parents not to send the child to school. The parents can also ask the GP for a letter to say that the child cannot be expected to attend school until their needs are met such that they can be kept safe and that certain assessments are in progress, and until such time they are completed, the child should be marked as authorised absent.

The system has got the resources you're just not willing to use them. You're trying to force your son into a school that can't meet his needs because its not for children like him. I'm a psychologist that works with quite a lot of EBSA kids and this is how so many of their stories start and it's quite often between year 4 and 6 because the level of work is harder, more is expected of the kids and as a result the teachers have to have a classroom style that accommodates that. If you keep pushing here I can absolutley see that you'll soon start to have school refusal. You say that he doesn't want to go back because people have seen him and thats totally valid. The kids are 9, when they see other kids pushing things over, shouting, throwing things they don't tend to want to play with them, they'll be talking about him, going home and telling their parents. Get him out now before he learns to distrust all peers.

Your son isn't 1:1 which is a huge issue here, thats not the schools fault because they have the number of staff needed to manage a class full of mainstream kids, if a member of staff has to deal 1:1 with your child that leaves 29 other kids in the class with less support so if you really wont look into a more suitable provision then I'd be challenging the LA to get 1:1 funding and an amended EHCP.

Unless you do this formally, with the appropriate exclusion paperwork, then it counts as an illegal exclusion.

@ButterPiesAreGreatit will only get worse if the send reforms go ahead.

btw the mum doesn't need a diagnosis to get an EHCP. The fact school send him home early every day is more than enough evidence to show he needs an ehcna and an EHCP and if the school request one that's also good evidence as schools don't request an assessment unless necessary. Someone should do another application asap and advise mum to appeal if the LA say no.

School governor, primary level and currently chair (tho quite new at that bit).

I am not going to suggest what they’re doing is right but this sort of thing is happening in schools across the country. Schools are being forced to accept children who should not be in mainstream schools because the specialist places are just not available and the local authority decides they are a suitable place for those children. And if they have an EHCP but need one to one care all day, funding is insufficient to supply that. This at a time where schools are grossly underfunded and being expected to part fund a teachers pay rise that somebody else decides. So when a child suddenly starts to display challenging behaviours, it is genuinely difficult for them to keep everyone safe. In our cluster of primary schools, this is not unusual for them to be in this situation and it’s a constant fight to try and get children in the right places. I know a parent whose child is at one such primary school, who has had issues develop over the last few years. The school does not have the capacity to get him an EHCP but they recognise he has additional needs. They allow him “brain breaks” in the playground during the day but they have decided he cannot possibly manage the last hour of the school day, so his mum has to pick him up early. She can only do this because she lives on the same road as the school and her work is very flexible (but it does cost her money because she has to stop work).She is doing all the legwork in getting a diagnosis to lead to an EHCP, which she really wants in place before he goes to secondary school (hes in KS2). What I’m saying is that schools are trying to do their very best for all the children in their care and it’s getting to the point where it’s an almost impossible balance to maintain. I really don’t think it’s a case of they don’t want the bother. They are probably on the edge and don’t know what else to do. We have certainly had some very difficult discussions involving some less experienced governors who saw it as very black and white when it really is not as simple. Some of these have been upsetting for the staff present because they are absolutely doing everything they can to support all children and keep them all safe, because that’s what they’re required to do.

You are the best advocate for your child but at the same time, if this behaviour is becoming dangerous for them to manage, specialist provision might actually be the best thing for him. However, the challenge will probably be securing that place. They are unlikely to have a place thats available quickly so you will have to work with the school for some time at least. I do know that some parents remove their children from schools and this can sometimes mean that places at special units are found more quickly but it is not guaranteed.

For now, I would try to work with the school and if you feel you have a genuine complaint about how they’re dealing with the situation, follow the complaints procedure of the school. Schools finding a way to remove a child from their roll purely because they don’t want the bother are likely to be extremely rare - I am not saying they don’t exist but the consequences for being found out are quite serious for the school and at least one headteacher and deputy head were banned from teaching indefinitely for doing this. It’s more likely other reasons as I’ve described.

Has the school said they cannot meet his needs?

Then an urgent review ehcp is needed.

Get advice for like sen sos, nas or one of the other sen charities.

He may need funding for 1:1 assistant or he may need a smaller quieter setting. Either way the ehcp needs reviewed now. Id be onto lea and pushing daily

okay. It's still unlawful.

Least of all the send families who only get what the LA say they can have. Of course if they disagree they can go to tribunal, have a 12-18 month wait (often with their child receiving no education at all in the meantime) have court decide what the child needs and STILL have to tolerate ignorant people trying to pretend parents get expensive education settings/packages because they demanded it.

The thing is that many LAs do not have much specialist provision for primary aged pupils. The expectation is that they will manage in mainstream, albeit with a 1 to 1 helper.

In this case I would be looking a lot more at the 1 to 1 support. He needs this full time, not just at certain times, and he needs someone who understands his needs and triggers - the class teacher is not in a position to do this. The 1 to 1 supporter should be doing sensory activities with him to keep him calm and removing him from the class at the first sign of trouble.

Is this happening? If not, OP needs to get the LA to fund more hours and school needs to be using a trained TA who has the flexibility to meet his needs.

Some schools won't make allowances for children who aren't coping. Is his school the type that expects total obedience to whatever is happening at any point?

My daughter was incredibly disregulated at primary and it was the TAs who helped her. They would take her out and let her run around the playground rather than sit and fidget in class and starts to become disruptive. But I know that some schools won't allow it.

DC don’t just get provision because their parents demand it.

Not funding support in the short term doesn’t save money in the longer term.

I have 2 DC whose EOTAS/EOTIS packages cost well over £100k, but they have that because they are legally entitled to it, not because we demanded it.

You can take a long term view, work with the school, work towards DC developing independence and other skills, etc. while also not allowing the LA and school to get away with acting unlawfully. I completely disagree that challenging unlawful behaviour doesn’t help long term.

Playing back some of what you’ve said;

It doesn’t sound like school was actually working at anything more than babysitting service level last year. If he was spending a lot of time out of the classroom then that would suggest he wasn’t coping with being in class. If he’s not there, he’s probably not getting taught as the quiet space is likely to be just that. Not a teaching space.

If They could easily staff that last year, and spotted warning signs sooner then he was on the premises all day but not necessarily in class. That wasn’t being in mainstream education. That was being in a quiet room on mainstream premises. This year he may be getting frustrated faster if he’s fallen behind peers by being out of class last year. The new teacher may not recognise the warning signs. They may not be able to staff the quiet room in the same way. If he’s bigger it also gets trickier to handle.

Taking him home informally probably isn’t helping though. It may help to say you’ll wait while they report the exclusion. And not leave til it’s done.

A headteacher in a room makes no difference when that child is being let down by the LA making them go into a mainstream environment in the first place, if anything, having the head provide cover prolongs the distress for a child who should be in suitable provision instead of the cheap option the LA has enforced.

We sometimes phone parents and ask them to collect their children, to stop things escalating.

And @Binnyforthewin.

Unfortunately, there is a no win for anyone here.

The costs associated with the demands some parents make for school places are astounding. It is not uncommon for places in special schools to cost the LA in excess of £100,000 per child per year. This is funded from the LA SEN budget, the same budget that has to include all children with SEN.

Sadly, due to the Conservative government cutting LA budgets combined with the academy system, means that there is a gap in SEN provision, filled by expensive private venture.
My LA have had plans approved, for five years plus, for a new special school but due to the academy system LA’s can no longer open new schools, only a DfE appointed trust can. Finding a trust to do this/that has the capacity to do this has taken years. We now have another three empty school sites awaiting trusts too.

The system was left a mess!

“As a parent you do have to learn that resources are scarce and your child is not the only one that counts.
In terms of illegal exclusions, other pupils aren’t relevant. Other pupils aren’t a get out of jail free card allowing the school to act unlawfully. In terms of provision in EHCPs and that provision being delivered, other pupils aren’t relevant either. Provision in EHCPs is based on needs, not other pupils or resources and the LA has a duty to provide the provision in F regardless of other pupils or what resources they say are available.”

@roaringdragon - you keep saying all of this. But at the end of the day, it is clear the OP is trying and hoping to take a long term view. She is desperate for her child to be part of society and function as normally as possible with all the shit/noise/stress that entails in relationships/the work place etc. So shielding him completely is not what she wants! She wants him to develop the communication skills to signal early distress and the teacher to spot them too - both working together. That is pretty clear from her replies. It is specifically what she is asking for and a way to get that.
Going nuclear on this that and the other lawfulness and accommodations may help temporarily and may help in a burn out situation, but it really does not work long term for many kids. It is OK to be socially and emotionally delayed, but what she doesn’t want is the system to arrest her child and babyfy them for life. She made that pretty clear and also that he is achieving well enough academically. He just cannot regulate socially and emotionally and now that things are harder academically. Which is entirely typical for year 5 as they prepare for the key stages of learning now.

How can you take responsibility if it is due to a disability your child has? Taking responsibility suggests you are hinting at poor parenting.

Except, if you had read the thread and used the knowledge gained, you will have seen that all children are legally entitled to a full time education and by asking the parent to pick up their child, the school are are instigating an illegal suspension.

Department of Education guidance documents and legislation have been shared here.

Sorry but this is deeply unfair on the other children in the class. This school is not the right environment for your son. You need to find somewhere else.

YABU. My kid was on the other side of this, and subject to another kid's outbursts, violence and dysregulation all of last school year. The parent refused to take responsibility for the actions of their child. My kid is now so anxious that they struggle to go to school, and can't stand being separated from me, where they were previously incredibly independent. It's one thing to keep them there, being a danger to other children, if there aren't alternative provisions available. It's completely another to keep them there because of how moving them makes you feel

The previous poster suggested schools should be taking legal action. They generally don't.

They aren't, but you suggested they should be entering them with the LA. Apologies if I misunderstood. What did you mean?

I wondered that. Sometimes academy trusts - the corporate parts - but individual schools aren't retaining lawyers!