AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

Just to add to all of this it's obvious that society has changed a lot. the internet, covid, social media etc, everything so expensive making going out harder. it's much easier to sit at home online these days. people are less sociable because of it. Think of it as a societal issue rather than putting the blame at people's feet.

I've given up trying to make friends as all my former friends are either dead or have moved away. I'll talk to people and be pleasant (I hope), but there's no point in having a friendship with anyone as that never ends well for me.

There's a lot of sexism on this thread. Of course men can be that way as well. I know several who have nobody or very few people, and cut themselves right off.

I've seen this a lot too and agree totally

I agree, OP, you see it a lot. What you also see are really odd and unrealistic expectations of friendships.

There seems to be a line of reasoning that suggests that if friends “aren’t there for you at 3am”, then the friendship isn’t worth having.

I have several long standing friendships which are, in essence, superficial. We enjoy each other’s company, meet up, have a laugh about life, work, TV, the news, etc, and then don’t see each other for another month bar the odd text. I have friends who I see even less than that.

Also people who have an existential crisis if someone drifts out of their life. It’s totally normal for this to happen. Sometimes they drift back in, sometimes you never see them again. It’s not a basis for soul searching and acrimony.

Finally those who deeply overthink it all. Analyse everything. I just want to shake them. Just go with the flow, stop investing so much thought into something which whilst it can take effort to put yourself out there, should happen naturally.

I had no intention of making friends with my longest standing friends. We just met, and it developed from there, over years, not a few weeks.

You can get a man by being pretty, even if your personality isn't great. Not so with friends.

I know men who have abandoned all their friends when they had kids - or only stayed in touch with the ones who also had kids, so the two families could spend time together. It's definitely not just a female thing. Then they and their partner find themselves alone with each other, little left in common, when the kids have flown the nest. In some cases the desire for children was possibly all they really had in common to begin with.

Autistic person here. I don't build friendships easily but I do have a core group of absolutely amazing women which seems to be expanding year on year. And I know "if you met one autistic person, you met one autistic person" but I still maintain that autism does not fully explain this phenomenon. If one managed to get through their school years and working life having interacted with humans, however superficially, they should at least have some friends and some social skills to continue meeting people throughout their lives.
So the way I see this, there are multiple complex factors at play

• Internalised misogyny. Women's place is still in the kitchen, metaphorically speaking. While there are fewer men insisting that their wife assumes all responsibility for the household and the family, there is still intrinsic guilt when a woman steps out of the house, returns to work or god forbid, has a hobby. An added bonus is the belief that a man is incapable of raising children, that mother somehow knows best even though we are not born with a child-raring manual pre-installed on our operating system. It's a skill and men are capable of learning this skill.
• Unrealistic expectations about friendships. I see it time and time again on MN people having strange demands on their friends - call every day, answer my message within 12h, have deep intense conversations, make sure there is an equal give and take. People examine forensically how many times someone suggested meeting or how many times they were asked about their kids and they are constantly get advice to "drop this friendship" even if there is a slightest imbalance. The reality is that most people in your life will be acquaintances, most conversations will be superficial and that's what forms the biggest part of your social circle. If you struggle with this idea, friendship is a non-starter. With your closest dearest friends, who cares who makes the most effort?! All I know is that if I call my friend, they will answer and we will have a great time. What does it matter if I may be the only one who calls?
• General lack of communication skills. All this not opening the door when someone comes, not picking up the phone unless there's been a prior text arrangement to call. Honestly, I don't even see a lot of people smile at the checkout person in a shop. I've lived in my area just shy of 4 months and while I don't have any local friends I know the name of the guy in a local DIY store branch and of the security guy in Lidl, have a regular chat with a young boy who does Evri delivery in my area, my neighbors and their kids, two trainers in my gym and three ladies at the vets reception. And I am as introverted as they come and, may I remind you, I have autism so small talk is not my strongest suit.

There are probably a lot more factors that I am missing. These were just my immediate observations. Ultimately, I think some people actively choose this friendless life and use their family as proxy. Which doesn't seem healthy for everyone concerned.

I have struggled with making /keeping friends at various different points in my life, usually due to physical relocation (Iv'e relocated three times), changing jobs, friends moving abroad, and sadly me having breast cancer - some "friends" disappeared. So life circumstances, and the frantic busy lifestyles everyone seems to lead these days, can disrupt friendships and then make you lose confidence about finding new friends.

I absolutely agree though that friendships require effort, and its too easy to not put that effort in.

I have actually thought about this quite a lot, so ND/ social anxiety etc aside...

I think they are really different things even though on the surface they are similar. The "rules" around developing a romantic relationship are somewhat clearer - there's an accepted progression and to an extent we are driven by a subconscious desire to procreate. Friendships are much more fluid/varied in their intensity and hard to define. A romantic partnership is also typically a 1-1 interaction/ exclusive/ primary relationship where you don't have to navigate the dynamics of a wider group/ that person's other relationships and priorities.

I think some of it can also be circumstance - some people end up in places where they find it difficult to find their tribe or find that friendship groups are already very established/ long standing. Some people are just not really open to new friendships, especially at life stages where they are overwhelmed with young kids and work so if you move geographically at that life stage and have to start again, that's tough. Part of the answer to "how can they find a partner but not make friends? " is likely to be timing - they probably met their partner some time ago when they also had friends, but now life has moved on to a stage where it's harder to meet new people and make friends.

Overall though, women are still better than making and maintaining friendships than men - more men have no friends than women and particularly in middle to later age. I think also how men define friends is looser so the gap is likely wider than published.

Agreed

I think you need to find something else to wonder about, surely? 😅

Controversial opinion but from what I’ve seen in threads on MN, the bar for positive contribution to the relationship is often considerably lower for a partner than it would be for a friend.

I'm sure there's a proportion of people who have genuine social anxiety, but it's very striking on the "bitchy school gate mums" threads that people seem to expect to be provided with a full roster of new friends as one of the perks of having kids at school. And then get upset when they realise other people have kept up their friendships.

This is so true.

It often reads as a sense of sheer entitlement, that all these friendship groups are going to immediately open up to them without them putting in any effort at all.

And if they don't, they're 'bitchy queen bee cliquey types'.

Yes, men are never selfish are they?

They wont ever "lose touch" with friends. They will however, rape women, beat women, murder women, sexually abuse women, to a far greater degree - just look at the crime statistics.

But thank goodness they dont lose touch with friends, eh? 🙄

I found it much easier to find a life partner than I have friends. And easier to keep him. My friendships fade or become less part of day to day life as our lives change (moving, change of mutual career, fewer mutual friends, having kids at different stages etc), which isn’t an issue with a life partner.

With finding a life partner, it’s more socially acceptable to say what you want up front (assuming you’re confident enough to ditch someone who has issues around commitment). There’s a social convention around roughly how much you contact a life partner, the progress your relationship makes.

Whereas with friendships, there’s no “standard” so you’re always trying to suss out what level of friendship other person wants. And if you want friends but keep meeting people who want to be acquaintances, that does knock your confidence to keep putting yourself out there.

Yes to all of this. Friendships take time to cultivate and it's harder these days as people move around a lot more and have busy lives etc. I've managed to make some lovely friends, most have kids but some don't and most have a partner. I think it's partly tech, it's so much easier to just hunker down with a partner/kids and your phone and the TV than to put the effort in with making and maintaining friendships.

Totally agree that socialising and maintaining friendships is a muscle that atrophies if not kept up though I guess some people find it comes more naturally than others. I do think as you get older in today's world it is harder to find friends and community and not always easy but it's so worth it.

I think the wellness and therapy industry and capitalism etc has also encouraged individualism and prioritising the self etc means many are encouraged to suit themselves only, I've seen so many posts and often hear people saying things like yeah just cancel that night out of you're not feeling up to it etc. Fine, everyone needs to cancel sometimes or may be unwell etc but there's definitely a culture of oh I can change my mind about this commitment if I feel like it. I really think it's important to stick to your word and if you make an arrangement you stick to it. I often feel like I can't be bothered or am too tired to go out but I make myself go and always am glad I did. I guess the pull to do that is easier if you already have company at home etc.

Also agree that most people couple up young when it's common to be in groups and easier to meet a partner and that many prioritise this as a number one goal and when it's achieved feel they have "arrived" and that box is ticked and no need to bother with others anymore really. I find friendships so enriching and life affirming. Obvs humans drive each other mad sometimes but that's life and I'd rather that than being on my own and lonely, we're not meant to be on our own too much and think it's sends most people a bit mad. Isn't it bad for the heart?

I agree. I find it genuinely baffling sometimes 😂

You can meet a man at work, navigate dating, sex, emotional vulnerability, marriage, pregnancy, childbirth and 15 years of joint finances but Sandra from the school gate asking if you fancy a coffee is apparently an intolerable invasion of your personal boundaries?!

I think the difference is that romance has a clear script and a huge incentive. Friendship is much more ambiguous: Does she actually like me? Should I text first? Am I imposing? What if she thinks we're closer than we are?

So I think some people are actually much better at intimacy than ordinary sociability.

Although I suspect that a lot of the "I hate people and don't need friends" brigade are really saying "I would quite like friends but the prospect of making myself vulnerable terrifies me." It's considerably more comfortable to declare everyone else exhausting 😂

Maybe as people who have partners are comfortable together, they haven’t invested in friendships the same way as a single person would.
It’s similar to people who have close family sibling relationships, they (I am in this group) also don’t put the same time and interest into friendships when they have a readymade friendship in their siblings.
I had a lot of friends before settling down with DH raising children. I don’t now. I’m not sure of I even want a separate friendship now.
I meet up with a group of old friends four times a year and have neighbour type friends, no deep connection.

Yes, @BlueSherbet has it! It’s because women are so fucking horrible! Thank god a man is here to enlighten us 🤔

Funny, that it’s these wonderful, friendly, reasonable men that are beating each other up outside the club on Saturday nights, mugging old ladies, murdering each other over “gang” related disagreements and generally just going out and about and committing about 90% of violent crime, 95% of sexual crime and making up 96% of the prison population, those pleasant, easygoing affable, selfless darlings.

Take those threads with a pinch of salt.

If they were genuinely as hostile and cold as they make out, the majority of people wouldnt continue to try and engage them in conversation. Yet according to them they have hoardes of people desperate to befriend them. Nah. Didnt happen.