AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

I also noticed this, but also a heavy level of social ineptitude, people advise going no contact for the most minor infraction, something that would normally be resolved with a quick conversation, has abuse hurled and go no contact comments , a huge reticence to socialise, any invite seen as an insult, be it to a wedding or a meal out, and even a desire not to answer the door but hide. Normal comments have threads started with a “ is this rude” with lots of posters saying yes it’s unbelievably rude when it’s not remotely.

I strongly agree with this. I think there's a certain personality type that is highly defensive and approaches social relationships as someone trying to get one over on them. People like this often bond with a partner who has the same viewpoint- in fact, their misanthropy makes their relationship stronger ("It's us against the world"). There's a lid for every pot.

I think this is very different from people who are pro-social but just a bit awkward about it due to personality, neurotype or simply having lost their social mojo a bit. It's always a shame when a thread on here posted by this latter sort of person is overrun by the former type of person because the advice given is so unhelpful ("I'm struggling to make friends as a new mum" "That's because they're all a load of cliquey bitches, you're better off without them.")

Honestly? Probably because men do the seeking when it comes to dating - they ask you out, they romance you etc. There’s no such rule for friendship and who approaches and where you go for your first meeting.

Plus lots of people if single are open to romance. Loads of folk don’t want new friends.

I never found either hard, but my sister found both very hard. She is AuDHD. So there’s that too.

I think social media and wfh have also made it very hard to sustain friendships.

I mostly agree with your original post. I do think that there are (sometimes unspoken) demands on women around 'kin-keeping' as well as motherhood that can make it difficult to spend much time outside the family and investing in new friendships when old friends move on. A lot of people work from home now too, which might be a barrier to developing those casual work friendships.

There are actually a few people I know in real life who I often think are 'classic Mumsnetters.'

They are as described in OP but also love the ''ber' months and love saying so, decorate their homes with orange seasonal soft furnishings and wreaths, hate answering their front door and don't really smile much.

I often wonder if they are actually on MN. They probably aren't.

Surely it isn't hard to understand that not everyone is equipped with the same social skills.

I think there's enough caveats in this thread to cover that though.

Like I posted earlier, I have loads of ND friends 🤗. No idea if I am myself, but I fit in much better with the outliers!

Maybe it's partly what you had modelled by your parents/family too? Mine both always had friends and interests the whole way through my childhood that wasn't about the kids so it feels natural for me to do that too and seek others who are similar. Those I know who are more insular tend to have parents that were the same.

You’re not wrong!

I must be built differently as I think finding a man who is
reasonably sexually attractive
financially independent
wants children or not
does equal amounts of housework and parenting
shares money equally
doesn't already have 4 difficult children
doesn't have a nutcase family
not possessive or jealous

much harder than making friends. I don't have to sleep with my friends or share parenting duties or put up with their batty mothers!

Yes, I was coming from a place of having a lot of friends.

Interestingly, a lot of my friends are ND or self-confessed curmudgeons!

Often people meet their partners when they're young, carefree and spend all their time socialising because they perhaps don't yet have a serious job or a family or other responsibilities.

Once you get older, dynamics change, old friends move away, and by the time you come to making new friends, it's not as easy as you remember. Anything can feel nerve-wracking if you're out of practice, even something as seemingly trivial as trying to arrange a coffee date with one of the school mums you see daily.

I also noticed this, but also a heavy level of social ineptitude, people advise going no contact for the most minor infraction, something that would normally be resolved with a quick conversation, has abuse hurled and go no contact comments , a huge reticence to socialise, any invite seen as an insult, be it to a wedding or a meal out, and even a desire not to answer the door but hide. Normal comments have threads started with a “ is this rude” with lots of posters saying yes it’s unbelievably rude when it’s not remotely.

i also think when younger they made an effort to socialise in an attempt to find a partner, then ceased doing so, let their friends fall away, and made their partner their whole lives, proclaiming them to be their best friend, when they mean only friend.

whichhas resulted in a lack of social skills. Included in this is many don’t work, so don’t even get social interaction that way, but for those who do, it’s under sufferance and they don’t wish to engage with their colleagues.

i wonder if their spouses are the same, socially awkward people together, or if one is more outgoing and socially interacts normally whilst the other stays home avoiding people.

i find it sad, i see so many threads where women are timid at the school gates, wanting to join in, eyeing other women enviously, angry and bitter they aren’t invited to join in, and think the simple fact they said hello and smiled means they should be invited, and think they are being purposefully invited, not realising the women aren’t even thinking about them.

That's so true, I know people who were not that keen on socialising anyway and then when coupled up and had kids dropped it. There are some that I have heard actually say it will be great to use the kids as an excuse when they arrive instead of "too busy/tired/poorly". These are often people who are extremely close with family too (mum, dad, siblings) and don't seem to want/need much outside that. I wonder if it's something that feels too difficult for some so is just easier to drop once you have some of your social needs met by a partner and kids?

Like the poster above I have autism. I do think that there are a lot of assumptions on this thread, by people who find it easy to socialise.

I initially found socialising easy when Ds was born. We joined Mother and toddler groups and met regularly with parents from my anti natal group. Initially, things were very inclusive, but cliques definitely formed and anyone who didn't fit the mould were gradually not included. This would be for a variety of reasons, in our case, our son's significant special needs, but for others it was a case of people being judged on appearance or perceived social status. The comments in the schoolground were absolutely spiteful.

There were smaller groups on the fringes and my friendships with those people have endured. Introverted people tend to find it harder to break into conversations in large groups. I also have friendships with ex colleagues and school friends, but new friendships are harder to navigate as I get older.

I think if people sense they don't fit in they are naturally become wary. Interestingly the worst group for excluding people had a super close knit group, which imploded like a house of cards, after one friendship spectacularly hit the skids. It isn't something that I'd have wished for them, but equally it was something I could have predicted.

Surely it isn't hard to understand that not everyone is equipped with the same social skills. I also think it is fine to protect your own privacy in a work based situation. Friendships can't be forced.

🤣🤣🤣🤣

This.
There is a kind of 'script' to follow when finding a partner: dating rituals, social conventions and norms, expectations of fidelity, and you can have the 'where is this going?' conversation.

With friendship, there is absolutely no guidelines, no commonly-accepted process, no clear boundaries.
It is a minefield and feels far more risky.

@Thepeopleversuswork
I found attracting a partner and building a relationship to be a far more fraught and involved process than making friends: there's so much more to lose, so much more vulnerability needed and the prospect of loss of face and self-esteem in the process of dating is far greater than in making friends.
I have always found exactly the opposite.
You know what is expected of a boyfriend, and if he doesn't measure up you can dump him. You have no idea what you should expect from a friend, what should be normal, and there is no clear-cut status like 'we are over' or 'we are trying to make it work', just a vagueness and confusion.

I agree, but that’s when I’m just casually socialising and happy for things to stay breezy and develop however. The OP was asking about people who don’t have any friends and struggle to make them. When I’m in that situation, that’s when trying to suss out people’s capacity/expectations/wants becomes important (and for me, tricky!).

@Nameynamechange21i think that's so true what you said about a vicious circle. When you're isolated and lonely and hungry for connection you can come off a bit desperate and will take rejection or failed attempts to connect harder than if you have friendships already and are more easy come easy go.

I’m gearing up for the annual ‘all alone at Xmas’ threads, which I read and nod along to with empathy, until the inevitable final line revealing they are actually defining ‘all alone’ as with their DH and DC.

Yes, I think with friends it’s much easier. I often say to my young adult kids, that you can get something positive and different out of every friendship, and no one friend has to have it all. Eg one friend can be kind, the other can be funny, the other might be the one that arranges lots of interesting social events and that’s great. But in a partner I think we want far more positive qualities in just one person. Which is much harder surely.

I’ve often found myself thinking exactly what you say in your OP and you’ve put it very well. Really interesting thread.

These are the people who become very dependent on their adult children for company and support if their partner dies before them. It’s weird.

I don't think its the parents who make kids their world, they are more likely to have been to baby groups, made friends with school mums, help at clubs and the PTA, all of which can lead to friends or at least socialising. I think he reluctance to do this comes first and the kids are the excuse. Genuinely putting kids first would mean sucking up that discomfort.

I look at my DDs friends up to 14/15 and I feel I can almost tell who will be in this situation as an adult. They always had expectations around friendships which were really meeting the criteria of a relationship "best friend," "don't have other friends and if you do, reassure me I'm more important," "don't do things without me, even if they are things I don't want to do." As teens these girls are having boyfriends but no real standards for these boyfriends and hardly see their friends then.

It's like they lack the perspective that friendship can have many different faces and intensities. The parents encourage this with focusing on BFFs and saying things like "don't make someone a priority if you aren't theirs." It means these kids have drama and insecurity around friendships, often centred on their own needs. The healthiest friendshiosnare often mor outward looking on both sides, people should encourage kindness for its own sake and what you can do for other people and it would come good for them.

In the last couple of years, I have tried very hard to make new friends as many of my friends moved far away or were only keen on social media friendships ( which I detest) I joined clubs and actively made an effort to reach out to women I thought were interesting and fun.
I have about a 25% success rate in converting acquaintances to friends. I think that's pretty good actually but some may find that too little ' return'.
I also discovered that a lot of people who constantly say they are lonely don't actually want friends. They just want to talk about making friends. Or they don't want to be friends with me!