AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

True.

Anyway I often feel like kicking back against the notion that women are bitchy. I don't think the vast majority are. Busy maybe, too busy to make or keep friends yes. But bitchy, no.

I think female friendships are one of the great consolations of middle age and the empty nest.

Of course it is unwise.
That doesn't make it any easier to make friends.

Also, those who have no friends except their husbands and DC and never want any, what happens when your children leave or your husband leaves/ dies/ you leave? Eggs in one basket seems unwise

I found it far easier to find a partner than make friends. I've never really "got on" with females, despite being one myself. My DH (who I've known for 39 years, married for 29), and I just got to know each other through voluntary work, became friends, and that turned into a relationship. He said the same, i.e. trouble being friends with males, but more at ease with women! We're kind of the same in opposite ways. I was his first (only) girlfriend, he was my first boyfriend. Something just "clicked" between us whilst working together, so we started spending more time together, i.e. calling in at each other's homes when passing for a coffee and chat, which turned into dates, etc. Neither of us did that with people of our own sex. We both have lots of "acquaintances", i.e. colleagues through work, neighbours, people we know through hobbies, etc,, but neither of us would call any of them "friends" as such. I think it worked for us because we have very similar personality traits, and similar hobbies/interests/outlooks, etc, the only difference being our genitalia really!! Neither of us ever found anyone else with similar personality, interest, hobbies, etc neither as friends nor romantic partners. I think another major factor is that we're both very wary/nervous around other people due to troubled teenage years we both suffered, but we've literally never been nervous/wary around each other - the first time we worked together doing the voluntary work it was as if we'd known each other for ever - very strange feeling, but it just felt right - never had that before or since.

I have mentioned being ND, but I've also given you my experience on how NT women have treated people generally. The bitchy school ground experiences on here have been cited for years on here. Work places can be similar, there are always those on the outside of things, who simply aren't included.

Maybe their standards for a partner are particularly low and/or they will settle for anyone just to be in a relationship. You see it time and time again on MN - women putting up with the most lacklustre idiots going because they are too scared not to be coupled-up.

Whereas with friends, you can afford to be a lot more picky.

This is something I thought about a lot when I was younger actually. I had a very good friend whose sister basically just tagged along. She was nice enough but it annoyed me that she was very rude - eg my friend asked if her sister could come to a birthday dinner I was hosting. I agreed. She didn't say hello to me when she arrived, she didn't say hello to me when she left. My friend excused her and apologised and said she's "shy" and "socially awkward". She had a successful career in the city and never wanted for a boyfriend.

As far as I can tell, 25 years later, she's married with children and has become a SAHM and her entire social life consists of her sister, her husband, the odd social event for her husband's work and one or two (male) friends from back in the day.

To be fair, I think she HAS genuinely struggled with her mental health and I know she suffers from quite a lot of anxiety and when I DID speak with her I did find her to be an interesting and sweet person, but I still always found it weird that she could be so rude and supposedly socially awkward and yet do all these other things.

I find this a bit alarming.

That must be why you see so many middle aged men sat in the bars/pubs by themselves.

Interesting question, I have a partner and kids but no friends (a couple of people from my history that I message every so often).

I've never really got on with women I think? I always found my peers at school a bit intimidating and there were so many domineering / bossy older women around (like my mum) that I just never saw any reason to want to talk to them. Always found men easier to be around, but I guess they just tolerated me or fancied me or something, rather than real friendships. At mother and baby groups, after the initial baby chat I had little to talk about with other mums. Niche interests I guess and not the world's greatest conversationalist.

I met my partner online rather than organically. That said, I'm not lonely so probably not the same as people who start threads because they're lonely and want to make friends.

My mum had no friends and didn’t really want any. She never did anything outside the house. She had a job once for a couple of years and she liked the people she worked with but didn’t maintain contact when she stopped working. When she got old she was very isolated. I’ve always had lots of friends and found it easy to make new. friends. Now I’m old I’m so grateful for this.

Sex is what makes having a DH easier than having a friendship for me.
If DH is sad, stressed, bored etc I can respond and show my love, comfort etc via having sex.

With friendships I have no clue what to say if someone is sad or going through a hard time. I have a few stock phrases I have learnt but beyond those I’m useless at comforting, I don’t hug people.

I am baffled by this list. I don't have any requirements for my friends except to be reasonably interesting, reasonably kind and considerate, not too flaky. They don't have to take my calls at 3 am.

Making friends genuinely is more difficult for some people though. I would like more friends but people don’t seem to want to be friends with me! I struggled making friends as a child and still as an adult. I’m very introverted which I understand can be interpreted as being stand offish.

I have also seen how some people seem to effortlessly make friends, so from that point of view it must seem strange that it is hard for some people to make friends. However, I’m sure there are people that you don’t want to be friends with, that you don’t warm to for whatever reason. I am one of those! Interestingly, I’m also not drawn to people with similar characteristics as myself (introvert, reserved, analytical). People who are naturally friendly and outgoing do seem to have an advantage in this area.

I’m probably contradicting my earlier post about going with the flow, but the effort people go into meeting a partner isn’t always replicated when they look for friends.

My boss decided she was going to befriend someone completely randomly. It was, in a sense, cynical because it was business related (she felt the friendship could benefit her and the firm commercially). She went out, put herself in a position to meet her, put in time and effort to meet and get to know her, and lo and behold they’re now “friends” and see one another socially.

That said, what my boss did required deft social skills and judgment. I also think they genuinely did just happen to click; she may not see her so often if they hadn’t.

I think friendships can be harder to maintain as you get older, have children and have less time. You have to see your partner, have to see your kids, have to go to work, have to do chores. Friendships can be seen as optional so it’s an easier thing to let slide. You need to actively make time for each other rather than it being a standard part of your day.

Older more established friendships can take less work than new ones so people can fall back on those and not bother making the effort. I like making new friends and but older friendships can definitely feel easier. With school friendships your kids are also involved to an extent so (at least initially) you’re not just you, you’re Grace’s mum. So might feel more pressure around parental expectations or whether your kids get on.

I also wonder if some women in relationships are not used to doing any kind of chasing? A man approaching you romantically removes a lot of uncertainty that he actually likes you and wants to get to know you. If you’re the one approaching (for friendship) there’s more fear of rejection? I think it’d feel worse to be rejected by a woman than a man as it feels more personal? Not that they just didn’t fancy you.

But yes, I think the reason that partners are easier to find and maintain than friends for many people is that you don't get madly infatuated by friends, or feel the overwhelming desire to fuck your friends. Lust is a very effective social lubricant.

For me it’s that I find it more difficult NOW to make friends as a result of having a husband and young children and working. I struggle for time and that’s the only reason. I used to make lots of friends at work but now work remotely and my office is an hour away.

I think we have already agreed that ND people have difficulties.
What about the others? The majority- I hope- who are NT?
I guess they may not be on MN.

Codependency? Fred and Rose West found each other.

I think men just require much less from their relationships than women.
DD is seeing some of this in college now as some of her friends friendship groups are having issues, pushing one girl out etc. I just don’t have experience of boys don’t that half as much.

I think it is complicated if you have children and friends doing. I had a good friend who lived some distance away, to be honest by my 30s I was past big boozy nights out especially when I had children and was annoyed I wouldn’t come stay and do that.
I’ve lost friends because our children are no longer friends, friends who expected me to do lots for them (childcare) and nothing in return (one pushed me out when it became clear I wouldn’t take her children for the weekend).
I’ve also met people who I’ve gotten on with who just don’t want the effort of new friends.

Yes it is very hard indeed to find a man who measures up (I got lucky).
But at least you know what your requirements are.

What is the equivalent list of requirements for a friend? Are there multiple lists for different types of friend? How do you know which list applies to each potential new friend? Or do you swap from one list to another as the friendship progresses, in which case when do you swap? How do you know if your requirements list is reasonable?
Or are friendships supposed to have no lists of requirements? In which case how do you know what is acceptable from you and expected of you?

Not to mention the equivalent of 'dating' a new friend - no rules, no social expectations, nothing.

So you have to make it about feminism? That had absolutely nothing to do with frmale friendships. Try not to lump us altogether eh? You've seen a few examples. It's not the whole of women is it now?

I found my husband when I was young and wild, and had children young while most of my peers didn’t. I lost touch with most of my friends as they wanted to go out and party, while the ‘mum friends’ I made were mostly over a decade older and in a vastly different phase of life, so we never got very close. I have plenty of acquaintances that life brings me into contact with, and can chat and be friendly when I see them, but I’ve never been able to sustain close friendships as an adult.

I suspect it’s because my AUDHD makes me simultaneously socially awkward, intense, and drained by socialising with people I feel I need to put on a ‘normal’ front with. That wasn’t really an issue with forming a romantic relationship with my DH; sexual attraction smoothed over a lot of those issues, and then we were just close enough for me to not feel awkward, or need to mask around him.

So as mentioned in your OP I don’t want new friends, do find friends to be draining, and don’t really like most people (I was horribly bullied at school, and am wary). I would feel much more vulnerable trying to make a friend than trying to pull, and I always feel like no one would want to be friends with me. Romantic entanglements were easier when I was young because I didn't feel vulnerable, probably because men (and women) were willing to overlook a lot of social awkwardness if there was a prospect of sex (ugh). Also, I had a lot more dutch courage!

I’m perfectly capable of socialising politely in small amounts and making engaging small talk when needed (I actually find people tend to overshare to an alarming degree with me, so it’s probably good for them I have no one else to tell except my DH!) But no, I don't want friends, just acquaintances.

But why wouldn't you have been just as likely to encounter and bond with autistic friends? I think that's @Thepeopleversuswork 's question, really (and mine, because I've noticed exactly the same thing again and again on here) -- if you have the social skills and motivation and ability to put yourself out there in order to find a romantic partner/spouse, then you have the skills etc to make friends, surely.

Finding a romantic partner, with whom you may end up having children, sharing a home, splitting your finances, following one another around geographically for jobs etc is far more high stakes than most friendships.