AIBU to wonder why many posters find it harder to make friends than find a life partner?

@StandingDeskDisco

But it HAS cost me something (if I were in this hypothetical scenario). Apart from the time and money, it has cost me emotional energy. This is not to be taken lightly.
This is the fundamental difference between introverts and extroverts.
Extroverts gain 'energy' from social interactions. They come away from a social encounter feeling refreshed and vitalised.
Introverts lose 'energy' in social interactions. No matter how much they enjoy the encounter and value the person, they come away feeling tired and a bit drained and needing some time alone to recharge.
So for an introvert, every casual coffee with a potential friend has a cost. And that is before you add any social anxiety or masking or emotional investment.

Respectfully, I disagree with the introverts v extroverts framing of this. I understand that introverts find this more socially draining, I have introvert tendencies. But it's part of life. It's no more draining than it would be to listen to a boring relative to keep the peace.

Also you have to think of the big picture: the cost to you of opting out of social interactions altogether is going to be much much higher in the long-term than the occasional cost of keeping them ticking along.

I don't know, that's partly why I'm posting about it I think. I'm not a psychologist or a social scientist so this is pure guesswork, but off the top of my head:

There are the obvious often-recommended things, such as joining a hobby group etc. These are all good ideas but they don't fix the underlying issues of atomisation, low self-confidence and anxiety.

Getting help with mental health issues earlier and before they become hard-wired (obviously that's much harder than it sounds given the state of mental health in the UK)

I think (counterintuitively) that people need to learn to be more comfortable with themselves and learn to "sit with" difficult emotions. Which would help minmise codependency on immediate family.

I would speculate that spending less time on social media would be a start as it would force people to develop their social muscle.

I also think women (in particular - male isolation is real but I think its a slightly different phenomenon) need to be encouraged to focus on their networks. As discussed a lot upthread, I think there is still a tendency to become over-dependent on the immediate family and deprioritise external networks when you settle down and have children.

And just committing to a "feel the fear and do it anyway" approach. So much easier to duck out of things when you feel anxious but its a fake it 'til you make it approach.

Those are just starting points.

I don't know, that's partly why I'm posting about it I think. I'm not a psychologist or a social scientist so this is pure guesswork, but off the top of my head:

There are the obvious often-recommended things, such as joining a hobby group etc. These are all good ideas but they don't fix the underlying issues of atomisation, low self-confidence and anxiety.

Getting help with mental health issues earlier and before they become hard-wired (obviously that's much harder than it sounds given the state of mental health in the UK)

I think (counterintuitively) that people need to learn to be more comfortable with themselves and learn to "sit with" difficult emotions. Which would help minmise codependency on immediate family.

I would speculate that spending less time on social media would be a start as it would force people to develop their social muscle.

I also think women (in particular - male isolation is real but I think its a slightly different phenomenon) need to be encouraged to focus on their networks. As discussed a lot upthread, I think there is still a tendency to become over-dependent on the immediate family and deprioritise external networks when you settle down and have children.

And just committing to a "feel the fear and do it anyway" approach. So much easier to duck out of things when you feel anxious but its a fake it 'til you make it approach.

Those are just starting points.

Clearly we aren’t all behind it or it wouldn’t have been deleted!

Obviously it was a well thought out, nuanced post though.

Some of the dramas make me think. People who are in friendship groups which include people they don’t actually like.

I am actually amazed that people get to middle age without having the resources or the independence to be able to handle not being surrounded by people. Maybe it’s an ND thing when it’s better to be alone than be around people you don’t actually gel with.

@StandingDeskDisco

But it HAS cost me something (if I were in this hypothetical scenario). Apart from the time and money, it has cost me emotional energy. This is not to be taken lightly.
This is the fundamental difference between introverts and extroverts.
Extroverts gain 'energy' from social interactions. They come away from a social encounter feeling refreshed and vitalised.
Introverts lose 'energy' in social interactions. No matter how much they enjoy the encounter and value the person, they come away feeling tired and a bit drained and needing some time alone to recharge.
So for an introvert, every casual coffee with a potential friend has a cost. And that is before you add any social anxiety or masking or emotional investment.

Respectfully, I disagree with the introverts v extroverts framing of this. I understand that introverts find this more socially draining, I have introvert tendencies. But it's part of life. It's no more draining than it would be to listen to a boring relative to keep the peace.

Also you have to think of the big picture: the cost to you of opting out of social interactions altogether is going to be much much higher in the long-term than the occasional cost of keeping them ticking along.

It’s a horrible word. I’m also AuDHD and have been called that for years. It’s awful. People use it in a negative way, it is never in a neutral way.

Socially awkward people, those who were ostracised as children due to poverty or religion and are wary of others now, those with autism or ADHD (like myself), or other differences. Anyone who doesn't fit into social norms, and despite being well-meaning or nice, may also be seen as slightly weird or gauche.

In my mind if you have got to the stage of going for a meal, they are friends.

An acquaintance is someone whose name you know and to whom you would nod in the street, and maybe say 'hi', or even chat for two minutes, but whom definitely don't know well enough to suggest meeting up with.

But if I went for a meal with someone and thought they were my friend, but found out (somehow) they only thought of me as an acquaintance, I would just die of embarrassment.

Yep. Some people enjoy solitude. Or just prefer less socialising.

And one can have a lot of friends and be very active socially, and still be lonely.

There's a difference between social isolation and loneliness.

No I'm not bored at all. I'm fascinated by it. I also think it's really important, socially.

People are becoming very atomised in our society at the moment and it's having a really negative impact both on our health and our politics. I think its one of the most important issues we face at the moment.

There's a growing body of data that demonstrates how critical social contact is in warding off a number of diseases, such as depression and Alzheimer's. Part of the reason we are so socially polarised is that people are far less willing than they were a generation ago to push themselves outside of their political comfort zones. It worries me.

And at the sharp end of this is the constant drip, drip on Mumsnet of people talking in negative ways about social contact, friendship and other things which I consider not just life-affirming but essential.

So I will bang on about this until the cows come home, sorry.

@ArabellaScott, thanks for taking the inevitable deletion for the team. We're all behind you. I almost did it but it's Friday and I was actually in a good mood and decided I couldn't be bothered with that cobblers today.

@ArabellaScott, thanks for taking the inevitable deletion for the team. We're all behind you. I almost did it but it's Friday and I was actually in a good mood and decided I couldn't be bothered with that cobblers today.

But it HAS cost me something (if I were in this hypothetical scenario). Apart from the time and money, it has cost me emotional energy. This is not to be taken lightly.

This is the fundamental difference between introverts and extroverts.
Extroverts gain 'energy' from social interactions. They come away from a social encounter feeling refreshed and vitalised.
Introverts lose 'energy' in social interactions. No matter how much they enjoy the encounter and value the person, they come away feeling tired and a bit drained and needing some time alone to recharge.

So for an introvert, every casual coffee with a potential friend has a cost. And that is before you add any social anxiety or masking or emotional investment.

Of course. But it's not always the case, which is my point.

It's interesting that despite the many reasons given to OP as to why some people might struggle more with friendships, or be disinterested in them, she still claims to not understand. She's acting as though a lack of close friends means that a person must be flawed or horribly dysfunctional as opposed to just introverted and a bit of a misfit (for instance), and it's very odd. It does sound like a bit of a fixation on her part.

Its an interesting question and I would agree with OP that you would think it would be easier to make friends.

From my (male) perspective, I think women treat one another horribly and I think this is perhaps something to do with why friends can actually be tricky.

My jaw frequently drops reading about how women treat each other one here.

There was a hen night thread recently where the accommodation fell through and people were out of pocket. Instead of coming to some adult resolution together, about reimbursing people or whatever, the last I heard was that the bride and MOH had secretly bought the silence of one guest with a partial refund, but the other guests were to get nothing and were to be kept in the dark over this secret payment.

Apparently the bride didn't want any ill feeling before the wedding and seemingly the best way she thought this could be ensured was by screwing over her friends who had given time and money to come to her hen night.

Just absolutely jaw dropping stuff. I can well imagine men being angry over losing money in an accommodation mix up, but they would "have it out" and then forget it by the time the first round of drinks arrived.

Men can sometimes 'lose touch' with friends, but very rarely fall out. If they don't like each other, they simply don't take anything to do with one another. In contrast, women seem to delight in being 'faux friends' with people they don't like, purely so they can make each others life a misery. Go figure. You often see threads where women wake up one morning to discover their friendship group is suddenly treating them like a pariah, for no apparent reason. I mean, WTF?

As to why this is? Feminism has tried to mould modern women to be extremely self centred. The idea of putting others first, or even considering them at all, just doesn't seem to figure, many women seem to just think of themselves and only themselves. In contrast, women were traditionally seen as considerate and selfless. This change is surely connected with the friends issue. (Of course you get selfish men too, but it seems this mostly affects their partners rather than their friends).