Could my friend have munchausens?

Sorry, is it even possible to fake? Surely teachers would see. Also, how much is a private appointment? Where my sister works, it is £240 per appointment on average. So, say it takes £1200 and five appointments to issue an official diagnosis. So are you saying that a private psychiatrist would risk his or her career, i.e. being struck off from the BMA Register if it is discovered that the diagnosis it not real? For £1200 before tax? Seriously?

If you’re going to judge your friend, at least use the correct terms.

Munchausens

Think about why this might be.

If you thought you had a medical condition, and the NHS GP was refusing to diagnose it, would you jump straight to paying ££££ to have a private consultation even though you weren’t at all sure? Or, would you keep going with NHS to try and get it resolved until it was absolutely bloody obvious you had a condition and only then pay privately for the diagnosis?

I presume you have reported him to the GMC to be investigated?

My nephew.

While they could see traits, the criteria for diagnosis wasn’t met. Private companies have to use the same assessment and diagnostic tools as the NHS, and be diagnosed by the same level of medical professional. It wouldn’t be worth their career to falsely diagnose.

I would imagine that by the time parents pursue a diagnosis they’re already pretty certain. Who is going to pay out thousands of pounds and put their child through an assessment process otherwise?

@BadBadCat thats probably because people who are paying fur private won’t do it unless they’re sure theur chikd is ND.
Its not cheap!!

As fur not hearing about those who were told No.
Do you really think
1- when it’s NHS, they can’t make mistakes either
2- because you haven’t heard about such cases, they they dint exist
3- PROFESIONALS who diagnose children (or adults) like this would be ready to put themselves in a place where their professionalism will be put into question?

Which isn’t surprising seeing how judgemental the friend (and OP) are

Does anyone who pays for a diagnosis of special needs ever not get it? I have never heard of anyone being told no, they don't have autism or other condition from a private referral. The biggest con of all is Irlens!

And where you are, disability allowance (DLA) will be given based on NEEDS, not a diagnosis. Same with carer allowance (which is nothing, let’s remeber that too)
I don’t know anyone who is pursuing an autism diagnosis for those.

Parents who are looking fur a diagnosis do so because tge child has issues at school,agd tgey need support. All of which will be visible to the teachers because, once again, HEPC, support etc…is implemented based on needs, not a diagnosis

Interesting that you seem to be drawn towards diagnosing somebody with Munchausen syndrome from observations, but hunches rather than convincing evidence. You may feel uncomfortable about her actions, and the validity of the process that her children have gone through, but there is probably more to it than she feels ok to spill out to your or other friend.

Does she?

A few things

• 2 children diagnosed with autism in the same family is nowhere near unusual. Actually you even have whole families who are ND, including the parents. Would your friend also think it’s all fabricated?
• Going private for ann autism assessment is pretty normal these days due to the lengthy wait with CAMHS. And under the ‘Right to chose’, you often don’t even have to pay.
• Note also the use of an illness (Munchausen) when she is actually jumping on the bandwagon ‘too many people diagnosed. Theyre not autistic just badly behaved/badly parented’

Unless that ‘friend’ knows the children VERY well, has seen them at home and can say what is bothering her (not just mum I wants more attention), then is take that with a (huge) punched of salt abd give her a wide berth,

You don’t get universal credit for having a child with autism. You get the child element if you have children and meet the criteria regardless of whether the child is ND or not.

You can get the carers element of UC IF your child is in receipt of either middle rate or higher rate DLA.

DLA is incredibly difficult to get, it is not based on diagnosis but on care needs, and care needs must also be evidenced by professionals. It is a long, arduous process.

Nobody is getting additional money just because their child is ND.

I’m not sure where you are but where I am you can get carers allowance, universal credit and disability allowance. It’s not always black and white but you certainly will be more likely to get these if you have a child with autism.

just to add I am not generalising and I know that the majority of people seeking these diagnosis’s will have these conditions but I’m just replying quite frankly to the concerns of OP and pointing out that sadly this does happen. Some of the things I have seen over the span of my career have been quite unbelievable and complex - nothing surprises me these days!

I can see an adult lying to try and get diagnosed with something but not a child. Not convincingly enough. But some parents I'm sure do 'want' their kid to have something that makes them different. I think most people are just hoping to genuinely make their child's life easier though. And help them make the most out of life.

I think it's a great shame the category of Asperger's was abolished. (Incidentally I am Jewish, and don't think that airbrushing Asperger out of history does anything to deal with anti-Semitism which is very much in the ascendant again.) I accept that 'high functioning' has its own problems as people who function very well in some ways are hopeless.

But I have another relative who fits the old Aspergers definition very well. He can be rather literal. He is disorganised. He can focus intensely on particular interests. He tends to monologue a lot. His thinking tends towards the black and white. It's a real struggle for him to accept alternative points of view and doing this can take him a lot of time, with outbreaks of frustration along the way.

I think anyone who is in his immediate circle needs to understand that he is wired a little differently, and that getting the best out of him sometimes requires a bit more understanding. But this is really much more like the sorts of 'making allowances' that we do for everyone. It is worlds away from the challenges of supporting the 6 year old - that I talked about higher up the thread.

I’m well aware of the Coventry grid, we use it often in my work.

I paid privately for my daughter’s autism assessment, none of it was online. Three appointments, in person, with a final appointment with me to go through her/our history.

You are factually incorrect.

You don’t get money for an autism diagnosis!!!!! Any help is based on need and the bar is high.

I’ve been through the NHS diagnosis process 4 times with my family and several times privately professionally as an evidence provider- how? Because I have not seen how being “clever” gets you a diagnosis.

So, I am, but you can take my word for it or not. I work for the NHS and have friends in the private sector.

And there is benefit for those with an autism diagnosis, as OP says, money being one. I personally don’t have a clue why, but people do it.

I have also seen people with actual Munchausen declare their child bedbound and spend the rest of their lives ‘caring’ for them… why? No idea, but people do.

Wow.

I have 2 children with extreme complex issues including Autism.

We have a disability badge for the car and one recieves PIP and other DLA

My neighbours would probably think they are completely 'normal' kids and we are on the fix with our blue badge.

What they don't see is what happens inside the house and inside school. They don't see the school therapy appointments, the dietician appointments for eating disorders, the SARC appointments, the prescriptions, the extreme PDA my son has.

They probably don't get close enough to see DDs SH scars.

What a lot of people don't understand is that some kids dealing with issues mask a lot of it when outside their 'safe spaces' which are places and people. So in front of strangers or mild associates they will be quiet and still, which they mistake for politeness or 'normalness' when in fact its fear, shut down and feeling uncomfortable. When they get back to their safe spaces like school and home it all comes out for teachers and parents to deal with.

Not the case universally of course but a pattern I've definitely noticed with my own.

I can see how people could experience that and think 'well I see Susan regularly heading to school and she looks completely normal to me'

But going from that to the mum having munchausens is a bit crazy??

No matter who does the diagnosis there is no effective additional help in mainstream schools. The reasonable adjustments the main ASD charities recommend are either easily done but ineffective like sitting away from the door, or impossible and unhelpful and sometimes a bit dangerous like letting the student walk around the school fields to calm down.
And having a TA is too expensive and is often counter productive. I had 50 students with a diagnosis of ASD in a school of 800 and at times fewer than 10 TAs. The maths doesnt math. Also TAs are not magical beings, many secondary students dont want them as it makes them different from other kids.

So

• autism runs in families
• NHS assessment lists are terribly long, and a private assessment isn't uncommon
• if the assessment is done properly, and it should be, there's rating scales and testing for the child (typically the ADOS-2 for a child this age). It's not all down on the parent and it would be extremely difficult to fake.

MbP is now known as factitious disorder imposed on another (ICD and DSM) or medical child abuse. It does happen, it's not fully discredited, but it's rare. I recall an American case where they managed to catch the mother in the act, I think they caught her contaminating her child's IV line.

I would not rush to assume factitious disorder simply because 2 children in a family have a diagnosis. That's a massive leap and I would steer clear of this "friend."

Because they are clever.

There is no way you’re a medical professional, role please and in what sector?

And no at £3k a pop parents don’t keep paying until they get a diagnosis particularly when there is zero benefit for somebody without autism and a lot of stigma for those with autism. Why would you pay £££££ of pounds for a diagnosis over and again? Why?

Medical professional here.

I would disagree with A doctor whether paid private or not is not going to diagnose autism unless it is present That’s not entirely true, you would not believe how manipulative some parents can be towards NHS doctors to get the answer they want. Privately it’s even easier - one doctor won’t diagnose, you just pay another to diagnose. And a lot of private doctors get money for diagnosing… so I absolutely believe a doctor will diagnose autisim whether present or not. They will find a way or take a parents word for it.

in saying that, there is a difference between getting a diagnosis for benefits and having Munchausen. Munchausen is really serious and dangerous and would probably go further than just an autism diagnosis, however you never know where that might lead.