Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?

1000 replies

FuadaFan · 09/09/2026 14:17

Now it is a drama about how the Israeli security services deal with the conflict but it is apparently pretty accurate and is amazingly well produced and acted.

Season 5, which covers Oct 7th has just come out after a long delay.

I've had to take a break after episode 7 because it's so distressing but it still doesn't even come close to what happened that day.

I think it's gives a clearer idea as to the truth of what has been going on and it does try to give a perspective from both sides.

I think every pro-Palestinian should watch it.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
111
Swiftie1878 · 16/09/2026 22:14

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 22:13

Russia is held to a "Western" standard and yet gets a free pass on war crimes. Its not a "higher" standard its a double standard that Western Countries don't even hold themselves to- and we know exactly why.

Russia is NOT a western country. They don’t even have elections! (Proper elections).

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 22:13

Swiftie1878 · 16/09/2026 22:09

Because Israel is held to a higher ‘Western’ standard. Correctly.
It has failed.

Russia is held to a "Western" standard and yet gets a free pass on war crimes. Its not a "higher" standard its a double standard that Western Countries don't even hold themselves to- and we know exactly why.

Swiftie1878 · 16/09/2026 22:12

That’s not what I’m saying at all.
Seriously, your determination to see antisemitism does a disservice to Jews. When it’s there it’s real and incredibly dangerous. When it’s not, but keeps being called out as such, it just undermines all antisemitism claims.

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 22:11

Swiftie1878 · 16/09/2026 22:09

Because Israel is held to a higher ‘Western’ standard. Correctly.
It has failed.

Russia is held to a Western Standard and even their war crimes are ignored. Its not a higher standard, its a double standard. Because Joos.

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 22:09

Swiftie1878 · 16/09/2026 22:07

Oh, stop being so naive. Follow the money.

The UK sells more weapons to Saudi Arabia than virtually any other country. But what you really meant is the Joos are controlling everything.

Swiftie1878 · 16/09/2026 22:09

inamarina · 16/09/2026 13:00

So war crimes don’t happen in other places?
Pp is pointing out that when atrocities happen in other places they don’t seem to attract the same attention as whatever Israel does. Why is that?

Because Israel is held to a higher ‘Western’ standard. Correctly.
It has failed.

Swiftie1878 · 16/09/2026 22:07

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 12:24

If it was a "war crimes" problem there would be far more condemnation of Hamas and the IRGC as well as Saudi Arabia's actions in Yemen.

Oh, stop being so naive. Follow the money.

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 22:07

ilovepuppies2019 · 16/09/2026 21:55

Change the word Jews for Palestinians and it’s also true. Plenty of people on MN and elsewhere have dehumanised Palestinians to the point where they think killing them, forcibly removing them from their homes, stealing their land and assaulting them is fine.

Both the governments of Israel and Hammas are the same and committing the same atrocities. We should have strict restrictions against both.

How do you "restrict" a government? "Restrictions" always impact the ordinary people, not the government.

Palestinian tourists aren't banned from certain countries. Nobody goes on "Palestinian hunts", Palestinians aren't assaulted for speaking Arabic abroad or wearing a Kaffiyeh. Yet all the above happens to Israelis - and not government officials to spare me the whole "its only the government I have a problem with".

And nobody actually thinks any of that about Palestinians: we mostly just want Palestinians to stop murdering people and weaponising their own kids.

ilovepuppies2019 · 16/09/2026 21:55

Ablondiebutagoody · 09/09/2026 15:50

Everyone knows what happened. Some people just hate Jews enough to think it was fine. A TV show won't change that.

Change the word Jews for Palestinians and it’s also true. Plenty of people on MN and elsewhere have dehumanised Palestinians to the point where they think killing them, forcibly removing them from their homes, stealing their land and assaulting them is fine.

Both the governments of Israel and Hammas are the same and committing the same atrocities. We should have strict restrictions against both.

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 21:48

This reply has been hidden

This reply has been hidden until the MNHQ team can have a look at it.

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 21:38

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 20:20

I don’t think expecting someone to respect all other races and ethnicities is an unusually high bar in deciding whether it’s worth discussing any kind of racism with them? Do you?

Can I ask you, if I happen to be of one of the races or ethnicity Jalapenos doesn’t respect, is it still unreasonable if I don’t want her to explain to me how I should respect her ethnicity? I’m fascinated that anyone would think this unreasonable.

Well done with the insults btw. It’s ever such a convincing argument. I really do believe I’m uneducated and a bigot now because someone who is supporting someone who doesn’t respect all races says I am 👍

I think she made it pretty clear: she not talking out respect. She's talking about not inciting violence. But I tell you what: next time a Jewish person is beaten up or attacked by one of your lot, go up to them and tell them how much you "respect" them. Then chant "From the River to the Sea".

See how that goes down.

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 21:26

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 20:51

Defense Minister Israel Katz says all Palestinians will be removed from Gaza one way or anothet. Not a genocide though. Definitely not a genocide.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-will-finish-the-job-in-gaza-and-seek-palestinians-migration-defense-minister/

Here's a video of a Hamas official saying they will repeat October 7th until Israel is "annihilated".

There are dozens more like this BTW. But these guys are the victims. Definetely the victims.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPWOvwG4_x4

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 20:51

Defense Minister Israel Katz says all Palestinians will be removed from Gaza one way or anothet. Not a genocide though. Definitely not a genocide.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-will-finish-the-job-in-gaza-and-seek-palestinians-migration-defense-minister/

To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?
To say all pro-Palestinians should watch Fauda on Netflix?
FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 20:48

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yes, it does get tricky when you’ve talked yourself into a corner, doesn’t it?

FreshJalapenos · 16/09/2026 20:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 20:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

I don’t think expecting someone to respect all other races and ethnicities is an unusually high bar in deciding whether it’s worth discussing any kind of racism with them? Do you?

Can I ask you, if I happen to be of one of the races or ethnicity Jalapenos doesn’t respect, is it still unreasonable if I don’t want her to explain to me how I should respect her ethnicity? I’m fascinated that anyone would think this unreasonable.

Well done with the insults btw. It’s ever such a convincing argument. I really do believe I’m uneducated and a bigot now because someone who is supporting someone who doesn’t respect all races says I am 👍

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 19:34

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 18:17

FreshJalapenos · 16/09/2026 15:57

at least I admit I don’t respect everyone, you just pretend.

whats your opinion on how Palestinians treat Jews, and how they kill babies like the Bibas boys?

Have you just replied to my post without even reading it?

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 18:15

FreshJalapenos · 16/09/2026 15:56

So you admit I never said I hate races and ethnicities?

You “can’t be bothered” because you know that “lack of respect” is not a synonym for “hate”

7 replies in 2 hours and not one mention of discussing antisemitism. just faux outrage that I don’t “love all peoples”. I don’t. Neither do you. I don’t respect everyone, neither do you. But hey, maybe your attempts at evading questions about racism and how you’re playing a part in racism, will work with someone else. It doesn’t wash with me. I see you

So you admit I never said I hate races and ethnicities?

You “can’t be bothered” because you know that “lack of respect” is not a synonym for “hate”

I have explained that the difference between being racist in a “I don’t respect some races and ethnicities” and in a “I hate some races and ethnicities” is not one I’m going to waste my time and energy exploring.

So if someone said “I hate older women” and someone else said “I don’t respect older women”, I wouldn’t waste my time wondering which was worse. I’d think they were both arses and I wouldn’t want anything to do with either of them …

7 replies in 2 hours and not one mention of discussing antisemitism. just faux outrage that I don’t “love all peoples”.

… and please note, I certainly wouldn’t be taking any lectures from either of them on misandry.

I don’t. Neither do you. I don’t respect everyone, neither do you.

Yes, you’ve made it quite clear you don’t respect all races and ethnicities. I on the other hand do. If you are genuinely unable to understand this does not mean I love every person, I’m really sorry but I can’t help you with that failure to comprehend something quite straightforward. Maybe ask someone else to explain it to you?

But hey, maybe your attempts at evading questions about racism and how you’re playing a part in racism, will work with someone else. It doesn’t wash with me. I see you

You call me racist when you don’t respect all races and ethnicities. It would be funny if it wasn’t such a serious issue,

I see you

So much DARVO it’s unreal. That expression makes me cringe because I have never yet heard it used by anyone who doesn’t have a falsely inflated view of their own moral superiority.

FreshJalapenos · 16/09/2026 15:57

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 13:24

The murders of the Bibas babies and the other children killed on October 7 were disgusting, inhumane and horrendous, and anyone celebrating also disgusting.

I have absolutely no idea why you think my view would be anything different.

You do realise calling someone an antisemite when you’ve said you don’t respect all other races and ethnicities, possibly including their own, is not the compelling insult you think it is?

at least I admit I don’t respect everyone, you just pretend.

whats your opinion on how Palestinians treat Jews, and how they kill babies like the Bibas boys?

FreshJalapenos · 16/09/2026 15:56

FeeFiFoFiddlyFum · 16/09/2026 13:25

As before, cross posted probably

  • don’t respect other races and ethnicities
  • hate other races and ethnicities

I can’t be bothered to get into a debate with you about the minor difference being racist towards another race or ethnicity in a “not respect” way or a “hate” way. I don’t think the distinction is important.

So you admit I never said I hate races and ethnicities?

You “can’t be bothered” because you know that “lack of respect” is not a synonym for “hate”

7 replies in 2 hours and not one mention of discussing antisemitism. just faux outrage that I don’t “love all peoples”. I don’t. Neither do you. I don’t respect everyone, neither do you. But hey, maybe your attempts at evading questions about racism and how you’re playing a part in racism, will work with someone else. It doesn’t wash with me. I see you

EnglishLady02 · 16/09/2026 15:42

LimitedAddition · 16/09/2026 14:31

I specifically said the optics. It’s widely perceived as white settler violence against brown natives. You can argue about the accuracy of that perception all you want, but it’s clearly part of why people are particularly interested in this conflict, which is the question I was answering.

Yes, and modern antizionism also owes its existence to a Soviet Propaghanda campaign in the 1960s.

Let's also not forget the trope about Jews ruling the world also originated in Russia.

https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/384391/a-forgotten-jew-hatred-how-soviet-anti-zionism-engineered-jewish-confusion-and-western-self-hate/

A Forgotten Jew-Hatred: How Soviet Anti-Zionism Engineered Jewish Confusion and Western Self-Hate

Anti-zionism is perhaps the most sophisticated form of anti-Jewish bigotry precisely because it was designed to masquerade as political criticism.

https://jewishjournal.com/commentary/opinion/384391/a-forgotten-jew-hatred-how-soviet-anti-zionism-engineered-jewish-confusion-and-western-self-hate/

FuadaFan · 16/09/2026 15:38

NullaEffugium · 16/09/2026 13:13

Ok, so I went followed the link in the Seth Mandel article to the source which is a very thorough thread posted by Gabriel Epstein on the death toll a/o Nov 2025 of 68,820. Epstein is a widely respected researcher and posts data that is as accurate as can be expected from a war zone where the very apparatus of counting deaths has been largely destroyed and no international investigators have been allowed in to verify the death toll.

While Epstein does say that non-trauma deaths listed in a separate chart are “natural” I don’t think I agree as his basis for that is a chart showing 400 or so deaths from malnutrition or where malnutrition was a contributing cause. He also refers to deaths by aid contractors as natural. I don’t think being shot by a mercenary in the pay of the IDF can be called a natural death. I personally don’t think he provided any evidence that the death toll includes any natural deaths, and even if I agreed with him it amounts to less than 1,000 deaths.

Nowhere does Epstein estimate 10,000 are natural deaths or state 25,000 were Hamas. He simply says “some” for both and posits that as bodies are uncovered, we will find a higher % of Hamas fighters.

He confirms that the missing estimated at 8-10k are already excluded from the death toll.

I don’t know how Seth Mandel came up with that 10,000 natural deaths figure or the 25,000 of the dead are Hamas combatants figure to do his maths.

Hamas started the war with 25-30,000 fighters. Israel has records showing it killed 14,000 fighters which jives with estimates of how many are left (barring mass recruiting). It is important to note that more civilian teen boys and men will be killed because they are fighting age males and so more likely to be perceived as a threat and presumed to be Hamas. We must be careful not to assume all male deaths over age 15 were Hamas.

(It is important to note that in the context of genocide the number of dead qualifies both for Oct 7th being a genocide of Jewish people and the Gaza war a genocide of Palestinians. Prior rulings on genocide have made it clear that you don’t need huge death tolls or even any deaths to qualify. Whether a genocide occurred is more complex than counting bodies or quibbling over combatant to civilian ratios and best left to the ICJ)

Where has Hamas reported the 'natural' or non war related deaths since 2023?

There were approx 5,000-6,000 deaths every year from old age, illness, accidents etc which is actually very low for a population of 2 million, a percentage of 0.3%.

As far as I'm aware Hamas has not published a separate number for these deaths since the war, so 15,000 -18,000 deaths in the death toll are not related to the war.

There are also likely many thousands of deaths from Hamas executions of suspected 'collaborators' and tribal wars, as well as deaths from misfired rockets, IEDS and land mines which will account for many of the amputation injuries as well.

Hamas is never going to admit that, because why on earth would they, so we'll never know the true figure.

The videos of terrorists firing rockets from the INSIDE tents in camps and planting booby traps in residential areas and homes (which people would have returned to) are beyond parody of the way Hamas operates.

OP posts:
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.
Swipe left for the next trending thread