School uniform rules - disregard or not?

Was it likely your dd was a rule follower anyway?

Women shouldn't need to wear make up to feel confident.

This oversimplifies things.

Take a 16/17/18 year old at a school. School rules say no make up whatsoever. So no concealer etc. However, you know that the vast majority of girls wear make up. Would you still insist that your daughter wears none whatsoever? I think that’s unnecessarily mean. Surely we can all remember being teens - they just want to fit in. I’m not saying things like acrylic nails and false eyelashes should be allowed, but letting your daughter wear a bit of concealer and mascara is hardly the end of the world.

Yes they do and uniform inspection every day isnt part of their job. If the uniforms were simpler cheaper & more comfortable they would see more kids complying
As for make up on a 12yr old no she's going to school not a nightclub.

So are you a barrister or a butler? 🤭

I presume that such schools actually enforce their rules...

My DDs went to a secondary that had a long list of uniform rules, would do spot checks on tucked in shirts, demanded kids take their coats off before going into the building, had a headteacher that had hopes of requiring dark coats even though it was on a main road with traffic issues, but rules about hair, makeup, anything to do skirts or trousers, the 'business smart' sixth form requirement, basically weren't a concern. Kids walking around in bike shorts wasn't uncommon.

I was even with staff as a parent representative for a new uniform supplier. I questioned a supplier around the skirt lengths available on their website, they openly said that while they occasionally stock longer lengths, they encourage their shop to sell skirts above the knee. The school's rules were below the knee. The school went with that supplier.

I told my kids when they started that they were agreeing to the school rules and I wouldn't argue with the school on those rules if they chose to risk detention or the like, that was on them but it was hard it care when not only did the school not care about doing so, they also didn't care that those children who were following them were being bullied for it.

When you're in that environment - and it's not that unusual for state schools in many places - it's so surprise parents disregard rules that they might elsewhere.

If so, then it appears one school (and staff) is worthy of respect and one not.

Or people give more value and put more effort for the things they choose.

I'm in a profession with that includes prestigious uniforms, bowing, and titles. Everyone who has been around for a while discussing when it was norm for people to get ripped apart or sent away for showing up in the wrong colour shoes -- and some places it still is.

I do bow and wear what I do and say what I do because it's part of my job that I chose so I'm willing to put in that effort -- but just because someone performs doesn't means there is total respect. A lot of things get said when the performance isn't on, and many of us have heard the stories of how the parents and students at the schools you're talking about are treated and talked about outside the classroom. I'm not convinced following the uniform or putting in effort means there is respect.

We did turn down fully expense paid private school. Not for reasons of uniform though.

I provided my kids with the correct uniform and they never had a uniform infringement - apart from when dd had a medical condition and despite the note the teachers got a little over excited about her wearing trainers, I offered to pull her out of school for a couple of weeks if the school staff couldn't contain themselves - thankfully they agreed to allow her to go about her business without constant harassment but what a lot of bloody drama.
You'd think schools had something else to concern themselves with.

I do not understand the parents who cannot seem to follow the uniform rules. Our school sends out reminders every week, the uniform expectations are on their website and facebook page, and they offer to supply pupils with the correct uniform if parents can't for whatever reason. The first day back the class page was full of parents fuming that their DCs were pulled up on their fake nails, AF1 trainers and skirt up the arse! They are doing so much damage teaching their DCs that they don't need to abide by rules. It really isn't difficult and I have no problem getting my DCs to follow the uniform policy.

All school uniform does is teach young people to dress badly, without thought or consideration to what might be appropriate. It teaches young people that so long as they are wearing the pieces of the uniform it doesnt matter if they are unwashed, ill fitting, tatty, scruffy.

Some jobs have a uniform. But an awful lot dont. And brought up on school uniform, school leavers have no idea what to wear in the workplace or to any event where it is important to be dressed appropriately.

Learning to read subtle dress codes should start in school. Learning to dress appropriately. Learning that you dont need to treat school as a fashion parade.

Many countries in Europe dont have school uniform and do generally dress better than the British. And do better academically.

I would conform as much as it was necessary, just as I would with a state school. I'd still disagree with it, provide feedback that I disliked it, and support my DC in getting away with as much as they could without risking their education.

But also, if I was looking at private schools I'd be looking at UCS, not Eton; or St Paul’s Girls’ School, not Cheltenham Ladies college.

I'd have chosen a school with no uniform every time if that had been a choice. Parental choice over schools is for most people something of an illusion.

The way schools are now run by overpaid layers of academy chain management I hope everyone takes the utmost chance to subvert the fuck out of the rules.

Exactly. What if they joined the army for example and decided they fancied wearing different boots ?

My son has just started at private school and his uniform is very understated. It’s just a blazer and trousers with a tie. No big logos. He’s there on a sports scholarship and has fully deserved it

I can assure you that just because it’s a prestigious school with ridiculously strict uniform regulations, it doesn’t mean children adhere to them. We spent much of our time rolling up skirts, trying to get away with clear nail polish and clear mascara (and on both counts would be sent to the chemistry lab to have the contraband removed) as well as bending, stretching and downright disobeying other rules. I now confess (confident that the statute of limitations has passed) that I did not wear my regulation school knickers (yes, that draconian) after the first week. I remember pleading with my mother that the other girls didn’t, and she relented and let me have white M&S ones!

I grew up with school dress codes - not so very strict, but governing things like skirt length. I have no problem with schools that want to have children dress
1.neatly
2.non-sexually
3.so as not to be obsessed about appearance/vanity

And I think a case can be made that in fact it can affect schooling.

@ScotchBonnet74 - the point I was trying to make is that it is counterproductive to have a raft of really strict uniform rules, and making the staff nitpick minor details - it doesn’t foster a good relationship between staff and pupils, and means staff spend precious time over these tiny details.

A uniform policy that is less strict makes everyone’s life easier, and I don’t think it negatively impacts the quality of the education the children get.

Bigger picture time: it's important to be consistent with rules and teach children to obey even when it seems petty - no one is being injured, it's just a uniform. It sends mixed messages and lowers respect for authority figures at school when students know their parents support them misbehaving. This then leads to bigger issues and diverts resources from kids who need support and attention when you constantly have to deal with poor behaviour and escalations due to little things like uniform. Just wear it!

I agree parents would stop complaining if they knew their children had bright futures ahead of them and that their kids were fully supported at school etc. so maybe head teachers / CEOs of these trusts should start thinking outside the box regards getting parents on board by providing a better experience at school.

As a parent, I'd provide my kids with the correct uniform and make sure I'd checked the uniform policies before they started. But I wouldn't be phoning up the school to kick off if they were sanctioned for breaking the rules. Even if I thought the rule was ridiculous, I do think it's a bit of a life lesson that sometimes minor things will happen that you don't agree with, and sometimes the right thing to do is to suck it up - and go through the right channels if you don't like the rule. Eg join student council, use student voice, don't just break it and say you'll ignore any sanctions.

As a teacher, I do think some rules are ridiculous and vary according to school. Why on earth should a child be punished for having different coloured hair bobbles? It's hard enough to find hair ties at home as it is. But I also think in my current school it frustrates me how inconsistently the uniform policy is applied - from one SL we're told to give a sanction when we see any rule breaking eg fake lashes, pink socks, jewellery etc. From another SL we're told to give a reminder and ask them to take it off first time we see it. So you then get kids who will pop their rings/hoops on and off throughout the day because they've seen 6 different teachers for the first time who have all asked them nicely to take it off.

I just think it sends a silly message - it's more in your interest to break the rule and wait to see if anyone stops you, and even then nothing happens. I'd much rather we just didn't have rules that weren't going to be enforced, it's not fair on all the kids who do comply with them and it erodes trust/respect. Kids do better with firm, clear boundaries.

Edit: just an afterthought, my friend worked in one school with a policy on hair that seriously disproportionately impacted black and mixed heritage boys so if it was a rule I thought was affecting my kids because of their ethnicity (or any other protected characteristic), then in that case, yes I would complain.

Rules are rules and should be followed end of. Parents who allow their kids to ignore the rules are not sending a good message. Kids will want to break rules which is normal but, they have to face the consequences.

You have misunderstood me I think. If a parent chooses a private school then one assumes that they dont consider the uniform ridiculous. It is part and parcel of what they are buying into.

I live in a small town, we had no choice about the school. During our years of association with the school it went through a succession of heads, each making changes to the uniform. Some of these were big changes and some small. When DC1 started at the school it was a sweatshirt/polo shirt school. A couple of years in it became a blazer school.

I disagreed with the introduction of blazers and expressed that to the head in email. I think they are ridiculous garments for school. The only people who wear them for work are yacht club commodores. But I did provide my DCs with the appropriate uniform. I also made sure they understood that they were the ones who would have to face the consequences if they didnt wear it.

There was still a uniform though? What point are you trying to make?