AIBU to think objections to Snape casting are mostly racist?

I'm fed up with "racist" being used every time a black/asian/Whatever person is critiqued.

PE is a fantastic actor, but certainly not as described in the books and if the bullying of Snape by James & Co is portrayed it will strongly suggest Racist where none was in the books.

I wonder which character(s) will be Trans......🙄

The problem I have with this and all other adaptations from books is the way they change things to be inclusive. I’d feel exactly the same way if they did it the other way around, if you are not going to respect the book then make up your own story and don’t use one of the most successful book franchises in modern times.

Absolutely this. He is not right for the part and it completely pulls you out of the world.

Colour-blind casting is exactly new.

Umbridge 😄

Yeah, I think that's an issue that has to be factored in with race blind casting. The world isn't race blind, and Snape as written was not black. Though not necessarily white either, so there could still be a racial dimension if he were eg an Iranian actor who fit the book deception. But the point is, it wasn't specified in the book and there's no getting round the context tgat exists in black/white dynamics.

I agree with OP that some of the criticism is a double standard in that he's no further away from the book description than Alan Rickman. Mind you, that rather ballsed up part of the narrative too.

I think the biggest issue with this is how Snape was handled in the films.

Movie Snape and Book Snape are entirely different characters. Snape is perhaps the most important adult character in the series - maybe second only to Dumbledore. Alan Rickman’s performance was iconic but it did not capture the nuance of the character correctly.

I’m generally not a fan of race swaps but they chose the wrong character to race swap. Harry and Snape should be white, Ron should be ginger. Voldemort should not be black. I would then say all of the other characters are fair game. I actually think a black Dumbledore would be preferable to a black Snape.

It’s not just the bullying scenes. Harry is immediately distrustful of Snape and spends all the series convinced he’s up to something, despite other characters telling him otherwise. And Snape’s physical appearance influences the character - he is constantly mocked for how he looks.

Black Dumbledore would be fine yeah.

I’m astonished to learn that! Older than even Dumbledore myself, I’d have thought those films would still and always be thrilling and enchanting full stop, not ‘needing’ any refashioning in order to cast their spell.

At the rate remakes are happening across the board though, it’ll not be long before these films have eleven-year olds forming gangs to carry out daring bullion heists, and massacring each other in the Wild West.
Any character shall be up for a sex or race swap, no matter how incongruous or pointless the change, no matter if s/he is a historical person whose sex or race is in some way a big part of the history/legend (eg a Black Irishman playing Elizabeth I).
Nothing not brand new or reimagined shall stand, by order!

I’m sure all this constant updating of films and fictional characters is somehow bad for us, and particularly for the young, who are being assured that reality can easily be altered to suit their immature desires and demands. (Harrumph!)

It's not really a remake. Film and TV adaptations are quite different, especially when the film cuts out so much source material. I see why they went for films in the 00s as that was very much the media of the time, but source material as dense as the Harry Potter is much better suited to TV as a medium.

I mean - in a way it’s quite effective to show how awful that episode of bullying is and how nasty the marauders are, and why Lily hates him so much and why Harry is so disturbed by it. I never buy that James actually DID become the hero everyone remembers- to me that is a very interesting little subtext in the books. Has his image been rehabilitated in death and was he quite possibly a bit of a twat still when hes died but Lily had been won over? We never really hear from an objective source what he was like post being a knob at school.

I always think JK Rowling must first regret making the adults so young - presumably there was some sentiment behind it but it makes their backstory seem quite improbable. Like when Sirius moves in with the Potters after school but they also die before Harry is 1. And James a Lily are like -21? When they die? It’s a short time for James to have a total personality change.

You can’t seriously be defending race switching casting. It’s a joke,

I’m really looking forward to the series, I think the films are… bad. And I thought that as a kid! Although I think there is NON-CANON spell in the trailer which is definitely MORE of a concern to me than casting…

although I’m glad Nicholas Hoult has been replaced he was SO WRONG for Lockhart - and hopefully we will get an actual hot Sirius not Gary Oldman! I suppose if they wanted to avoid racist sub text they could cast Rege Jean Page? (Fingers crossed)

I think it could be a good thing. The problem with casting Adam driver or whoever the internet was fancasting is that Alan Rickman's interpretation was so iconic anyone looking similar would come across as a cheap imitation (or temu-snape as I saw someone call him!). Looking visually distinct will wipe away pre-conceptions and allow PE to put his own spin on the character.

Anyone saying there is no racism inherent in criticism of his casting needs to check some of the youtube comments on any of the promo versions. There have definitely been some incredibly inappropriate statements.

The only issue I have is that it was a bit hypocritical of the HBO version to sell itself specifically as being a more accurate version of the books and then make casting decisions that actively contradict the text. But that's a criticism of disconnect between the marketing and product rather than issues with the casting specifically.

I completely agree it would have made more sense for them to be a bit older, and am also sceptical that James changed as much as all that - also not sure how hagrids claims that L&J were two of the most incredible wizards of their age - they dont seem to have actually had a job between them, lily was pregnant by age 19 and they were in hiding for months before their deaths so its not really clear what they did to warrant so much acclaim or how they managed to defy Voldemort 3 times within that span, particularly given the OOTP was supposed to be a secret organisation!

Im not sure if JKR did regret it though given she did almost the exact same thing with the next gen - the epilogue is set 19 years later, James Junior is at least 13, so Ginny would have been pregnant within 4 years of leaving school.

To me this is a daft casting choice and my views have nothing to do with racism.

It is because:

• Snape being black gives a whole new meaning to the bullying he suffers from some of the characters when he is a teenager. That completely changes the story.
• Snape's appearance is described in the book and he is not a black man.

I would feel the same if they cast actors who don't have red hair as the Wesleys or if Dumbledore was played by Meryl Streep...

Yes that true about Harry’s kids! I feel ambivalent about that epilogue so try and forget about it 😂 the wizarding world is very small c conservative isn’t it

People say that anyone who objects to colour-blind casting is racist, but I don't agree with this at all. I think people have different experiences of watching tv/films and for some, the ability to suspend disbelief just disappears if the casting doesn't feel accurate. For example, I can't watch Bridgerton because the whole universe makes no sense to me (racism is pretty much gone but sexism is alive and kicking?) and the casting feels quite performative. I also can't watch anything historical in which they've changed the ethnicity of the characters in an important way (e.g. Jane Austen adaptions where the character is not white and no one mentions it!).

I think for something like HP which is fantasy the objections are similarly based on whether the world building makes sense when you change the characters in a meaningful way, or are objections to a lack of fidelity to the text. I have been annoyed both times when Ron is not lanky enough, but I think talented red-headed actors may be quite rare so this is probably difficult.

Interestingly, I have always thought that the having children young was a direct consequence of the trauma that both Lily/James and Harry/Tinny went through.

In times of high trauma, families tend to go one of two ways- completely refrain from having children (prevent the children being born into an awful situation) or, having children young (the future is uncertain, it's now or never).

Snape's casting - I worry that it adds a whole new dimension to the story, which is world breaking. Plus, Alan Rickman as Snape rocked my world, but I wouldn't want a direct replacement.

This. ^ Why not create new stories with strong black characters in them, instead of rehashing an old story, and getting a black actor to play someone who has always been white?

And I am 100% against black actors playing a real life person who was white - like Anne Boleyn was played by a black actress on a BBC show. It's ludicrous IMO. Are black people not offended by this? Being asked to play a white person? Why would any black person want to play a real life white person? Also, you never see any white person playing a real life black person. Wouldn't happen. (And I would not want to see this either!)

I do not like colour blind casting, Particularly as it only involves black people playing the part of someone who is white in real life - or white in the original story.. As I said, no WAY would a white actor be asked to play Martin Luther King or Josephine Baker for example.

Also @OhNoooooooooooooooo YABU.

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I'm actually looking forward to seeing him and I think he could be good, but I also think YABU to say the objections are all racist. I think there are valid non-racist reasons for thinking that Snape as a particular character, with his particular story, perhaps isn't the best one to do this with.

The films are shit though.

@Blooko I haven’t really settled on a feeling about colour blind casting - for me it really depends on the tone of the series and how good the world building is - I think Enola Holmes is a good example of where it works, but agree not all are successful and sometimes it’s jarring - agree Jane Austen would be weird, although think I’ve only seen that in The Other Bennet Girl which was pure fan fic so I didn’t mind!

I think for Snape though there is no ‘world building’ reason why he couldn’t be black, as it is set in the 90s. He’s not as described in the book, but that in and of itself doesn’t bother me.

My DD is an absolute HP obsessive. In her opinion they shouldn't be doing any remakes of the HP series or any other films AT ALL. Nothing to do with the cast.