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To be annoyed nobody mentioned who started the war

244 replies

Normalized · 07/09/2026 02:03

Recently on YouTube the Oxford Union Channel released a debate titled this house believes Israel never really wanted peace. I'm not going to go through the arguments back and forth as anyone can watch it, however what's really annoyed me is that's not a single debater, including on the Israel side, mentioned who actually started the war.

There was a lot of talk whether Israel did truly ever want peace or not, but nobody actually spoke of the fact that Israel never started any wars. It was the Arabs and Palestinians who started first the Civil War in 1947, then Israel's war of independence in 1948. I would think the onus for peace is on the party who actually started all the wars.

It's such a weird debate to pull up Israel for 'never truly wanting peace' while completely ignoring the role of the other side who actually started all the wars.

OP posts:
LuckyHazelFox · 08/09/2026 17:04

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 16:52

@LuckyHazelFox the original poster said that Israel didn't start any wars which is factually incorrect and I am pointing that out.

They started defensive action.

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 16:52

@LuckyHazelFox the original poster said that Israel didn't start any wars which is factually incorrect and I am pointing that out.

Justbrieme · 08/09/2026 16:28

Normalized · 07/09/2026 05:43

So the UN voting for Jews to have a state in part of their ancestral homeland, which wasn't sovereign by anyone else, was an act of war?

And the Jews half a year later declaring: ACCORDINGLY WE, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S COUNCIL, REPRESENTATIVES OF THE JEWISH COMMUNITY OF ERETZ-ISRAEL AND OF THE ZIONIST MOVEMENT...HEREBY DECLARE THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A JEWISH STATE IN ERETZ-ISRAEL, TO BE KNOWN AS THE STATE OF ISRAEL... WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.

That was another act of aggression, was it?

You have a very interesting take on history.

That is an incredibly benign version of the events surrounding that period of history in that part of the world.

LuckyHazelFox · 08/09/2026 16:23

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 16:21

@LuckyHazelFox

Israel

Edited

You believe Jordan, Syria and Egypt were the oppressed and Israel just attacked arab States for the fun of it?

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 16:21

@LuckyHazelFox

Israel

KindlySurfiingPlatypus · 08/09/2026 16:09

Goatsarebest · 08/09/2026 15:36

Hamas set the terms of reference in how the conflict was to progress through their barbaric actions. Whatever your view on the political situation, those actions were barbaric and had no justification in any armed struggle for freedom. The response has been barbaric too. But you can't set of a chain of events so horrific and of that magnitude and then say the response is disproportionate. Hamas committed numerous war crimes including summary execution of civilians and hostage taking of civilians and using rape as a weapon of war, parading and defiling in public. The list goes on, as do the consequences. If you don't think they actually started it because of history, you can't deny they did bring the rules of engagement to where it is now.

Hamas are the enemy

Ordinary Palestinians who just want to live in peace, do a job, raise a family and survive, are not the enemy.

Best estimates are that there are around 30,000 active members of Hamas.

There are approx 2 million Palestinians with Israeli Citizenship plus approx 0.5 million Palestinians living there without citizenship. So we're talking about 1% of Palestinians in Hamas.

Indiscriminately slaughtering ordinary Palestinians in the hopes that some of the dead may turn out retrospectively to be members of Hamas is not the action of anyone with a functioning moral compass.

LuckyHazelFox · 08/09/2026 16:04

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 16:01

@Normalized

Israel started the 6-day war in 1967 which resulted in them taking control of East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

Edited

What made Israel do that?

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 16:01

@Normalized

Israel started the 6-day war in 1967 which resulted in them taking control of East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

Chrysanthemumsinpots · 08/09/2026 15:41

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 06:51

What on earth does that have to do with anything!

May be read the quote history

Goatsarebest · 08/09/2026 15:36

Hamas set the terms of reference in how the conflict was to progress through their barbaric actions. Whatever your view on the political situation, those actions were barbaric and had no justification in any armed struggle for freedom. The response has been barbaric too. But you can't set of a chain of events so horrific and of that magnitude and then say the response is disproportionate. Hamas committed numerous war crimes including summary execution of civilians and hostage taking of civilians and using rape as a weapon of war, parading and defiling in public. The list goes on, as do the consequences. If you don't think they actually started it because of history, you can't deny they did bring the rules of engagement to where it is now.

Goatsarebest · 08/09/2026 15:22

PinguMoll · 07/09/2026 02:12

Yep they started a Jihadist war then called genocide when the Israelis retaliated.

Not to mention Hamas are a terrorist organisation who are murdering thousands of Christians in Africa

Don't mention the persecution and massacre of Christians or the summary execution of their own people or anyone who doesn't fit their ideological beliefs, as it doesn't fit the narrative. We've managed to get this far without anyone having to actually think about this, so best not to bring it up now as we don't want to have to think about the truth of what our 'freedom' fighters do, even when there's no 'freedom' at stake.
Best just to keep to a generalised hate of anything Jewish. It's alot easier.
There no separation of what Israel is doing in Palastine and what Hamas has or would do in Israel and is and would do in Africa.
It's just that Israel are better at it than Hamas at the moment.

Comesround · 08/09/2026 15:08

Normalized · 08/09/2026 13:14

It is completely accurate. Before UN vote not a single Arab had lost their home. This is an incontrovertible fact.

The war was started by the Arabs not because they were being oppressed, but because they didn't want the Jews to have any kind of sovereignty in their ancestral homeland.

I can see that you started this thread with only one purpose, to spout misinformation, and there is no talking to someone like that.

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 14:33

Normalized · 08/09/2026 13:14

It is completely accurate. Before UN vote not a single Arab had lost their home. This is an incontrovertible fact.

The war was started by the Arabs not because they were being oppressed, but because they didn't want the Jews to have any kind of sovereignty in their ancestral homeland.

Which was also the ancestral homeland of non-Israelis.

Normalized · 08/09/2026 13:14

Comesround · 08/09/2026 13:05

This is simply inaccurate. I don't want to point out how and why because I don't want to criticise what was done in light of the ensuing suffering on both sides. But if you really believe what you're saying, someone is feeding you fake news.

It is completely accurate. Before UN vote not a single Arab had lost their home. This is an incontrovertible fact.

The war was started by the Arabs not because they were being oppressed, but because they didn't want the Jews to have any kind of sovereignty in their ancestral homeland.

OP posts:
Mumsntfan1 · 08/09/2026 13:10

Comesround · 08/09/2026 13:05

This is simply inaccurate. I don't want to point out how and why because I don't want to criticise what was done in light of the ensuing suffering on both sides. But if you really believe what you're saying, someone is feeding you fake news.

How many Arabs stayed in the Jewish state? Do they have the same rights as Jews? How many Jews stayed in Arab/Muslim states? Do they have the same rights as Muslims?

Comesround · 08/09/2026 13:05

Normalized · 08/09/2026 07:50

Nope. When the UN voted to partition the land into a Jewish state and an Arab state, not one Arab had been 'thrown off their land'. They still started a civil war a day later, attacking and massacring random Jews.

In the declaration of independence Israel called on the Arabs to remain on the basis of equal citizenship (many actually did, hence the 20-25% of Israel's population being Arab). The Arabs still started shelling the next morning.

This is simply inaccurate. I don't want to point out how and why because I don't want to criticise what was done in light of the ensuing suffering on both sides. But if you really believe what you're saying, someone is feeding you fake news.

Neverstopwondering · 08/09/2026 08:06

It is well documented that the Arab leaders of surrounding countries told the Arab citizens of the land to leave their homes while they deal with the Jews. Then once the Jews were gone/no longed an issue the arabs could come back. Some even said they would get the property of the Jews as a reward for doing this. Unfortunately the war didn't go to plan and the Jews remained. However in the end in Judea and Samaria which the Jordan occupied they changed the name to the west bank and did kill or kick out the indigenous Jewish along side refugee Jewish and immigration Jewish population. They stole their land, houses and property.

These are historical facts rather than made up 1947/48 fiction pushed by very hateful people. Yes some arabs were definitely pushed out of their homes during the conflict and that was wrong but not on the scale suggested by historical revisionists and not as a Jewish strategy but due to conditions of unrest created by the war.

Normalized · 08/09/2026 07:50

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 06:41

No, it happened when Jewish people threw people out of their homes and off their land. They’re still doing it.

Nope. When the UN voted to partition the land into a Jewish state and an Arab state, not one Arab had been 'thrown off their land'. They still started a civil war a day later, attacking and massacring random Jews.

In the declaration of independence Israel called on the Arabs to remain on the basis of equal citizenship (many actually did, hence the 20-25% of Israel's population being Arab). The Arabs still started shelling the next morning.

OP posts:
BaffledAndBemusedToo · 08/09/2026 07:49

PinguMoll · 07/09/2026 12:40

And Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Lybia, Iraq, Jordan, Bosnia and Kosovo...

This list gkes on and on and on

Yet people support mass immigration of Muslims into every European country.

What could possibly happen when the Muslims become the majority here? Hmm?

And its only getting worse as younger generations of Brits cannot access social housing, cannot afford private rent, cannot afford utilities, cannot get GPs or dentist and so are choosing not to have children. Whilst the immigrant communities are happy to live in multigenerational homes and quite frankly most women don't have a choice in having child after child.

Hard agree.

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 07:03

PinguMoll · 07/09/2026 12:40

And Egypt, Syria, Tunisia, Lybia, Iraq, Jordan, Bosnia and Kosovo...

This list gkes on and on and on

Yet people support mass immigration of Muslims into every European country.

What could possibly happen when the Muslims become the majority here? Hmm?

And its only getting worse as younger generations of Brits cannot access social housing, cannot afford private rent, cannot afford utilities, cannot get GPs or dentist and so are choosing not to have children. Whilst the immigrant communities are happy to live in multigenerational homes and quite frankly most women don't have a choice in having child after child.

The lack of access to services is not the fault of Muslims or immigrants. It’s the fault of government cuts.

XigDoop · 08/09/2026 06:53

The annihilation of the Palestinians has been planned for decades. This was in the 70s.

"At Bibi Netenyahu's dinner table in Jerusalem, I listened with crawling dismay to Bibi talking about the future of his country. 'In the next war, if we do it right, we'll have a chance to get all the arabs out,' he said. We can clear the West Bank, sort out Jerusalem.' He joked about the Golani Brigade, the Israeli infantry force in which so many men were North African or Yemenite Jews.'They're okay as long as they're led by white officers.' he grinned."

Max Hastings, interview with Netanyahu in 1977. From his book" Going to the Wars".

And before that you had Menachem Begin and his terrorist friends blowing up British soldiers.

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 06:51

Chrysanthemumsinpots · 07/09/2026 10:23

Depends what you mean be ‘kicking people out of their homes’. Many areas of London are now only minority white.

What on earth does that have to do with anything!

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 06:41

Normalized · 07/09/2026 06:37

Pretty sure that happened during and due to the needless war the Arabs started. It didn't have to be this way.

No, it happened when Jewish people threw people out of their homes and off their land. They’re still doing it.

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 06:36

Normalized · 07/09/2026 06:37

Pretty sure that happened during and due to the needless war the Arabs started. It didn't have to be this way.

The Balfour Declaration specifically said that existing residents should not be disadvantaged.

HappiestSleeping · 08/09/2026 03:06

Pinkissmart · 07/09/2026 22:24

The bible isn’t history

I never said anything about the Bible. Check the archeological evidence.