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To be annoyed nobody mentioned who started the war

244 replies

Normalized · 07/09/2026 02:03

Recently on YouTube the Oxford Union Channel released a debate titled this house believes Israel never really wanted peace. I'm not going to go through the arguments back and forth as anyone can watch it, however what's really annoyed me is that's not a single debater, including on the Israel side, mentioned who actually started the war.

There was a lot of talk whether Israel did truly ever want peace or not, but nobody actually spoke of the fact that Israel never started any wars. It was the Arabs and Palestinians who started first the Civil War in 1947, then Israel's war of independence in 1948. I would think the onus for peace is on the party who actually started all the wars.

It's such a weird debate to pull up Israel for 'never truly wanting peace' while completely ignoring the role of the other side who actually started all the wars.

OP posts:
LuckyHazelFox · 09/09/2026 08:01

ThestoriesIcouldtellyou · 09/09/2026 07:51

As usual, religion, culture and state building are mixed together in that region. The region became predominantly Muslim after hundreds of years of Christianity for financial and territorial gain, not religious reasons. Christians converted to Islam slowly over many years, again because they were taxed unfairly if they didn't make that conversion. There was relative peace and the religions did live side by side until the British started carving the place up. Just as we see in Northern Ireland, the only way to arrive at peace is a shared solution that says you can be from the place geographically, while identifying ethnically and culturally as one of two groups. The more you try to make things black and white geographically, the worse things get. British policy has always been "divide and rule"...see also: Myanmar, Burma, Ind, Nigeria, Ireland etc etc.

What rose tinted version have you been reading?

thepariscrimefiles · 09/09/2026 07:57

It has just been revealed that Benjamin Netanyahu was personally alerted by the president of the United Arab Emirates that Hamas was planning a large-scale offensive against Israel a week before its 7 October 2023 attack, but did not act on the warning.

According to the report, the UAE president, Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, spoke to Netanyahu a week and a half before the attack, and told him Hamas was planning a major operation.

Chrysanthemumsinpots · 09/09/2026 07:55

ThestoriesIcouldtellyou · 09/09/2026 07:51

As usual, religion, culture and state building are mixed together in that region. The region became predominantly Muslim after hundreds of years of Christianity for financial and territorial gain, not religious reasons. Christians converted to Islam slowly over many years, again because they were taxed unfairly if they didn't make that conversion. There was relative peace and the religions did live side by side until the British started carving the place up. Just as we see in Northern Ireland, the only way to arrive at peace is a shared solution that says you can be from the place geographically, while identifying ethnically and culturally as one of two groups. The more you try to make things black and white geographically, the worse things get. British policy has always been "divide and rule"...see also: Myanmar, Burma, Ind, Nigeria, Ireland etc etc.

It was not peacefully living side by side when Christians were massacred, enslaved, driven off, force able converted or made to pay tribute.

ThestoriesIcouldtellyou · 09/09/2026 07:51

As usual, religion, culture and state building are mixed together in that region. The region became predominantly Muslim after hundreds of years of Christianity for financial and territorial gain, not religious reasons. Christians converted to Islam slowly over many years, again because they were taxed unfairly if they didn't make that conversion. There was relative peace and the religions did live side by side until the British started carving the place up. Just as we see in Northern Ireland, the only way to arrive at peace is a shared solution that says you can be from the place geographically, while identifying ethnically and culturally as one of two groups. The more you try to make things black and white geographically, the worse things get. British policy has always been "divide and rule"...see also: Myanmar, Burma, Ind, Nigeria, Ireland etc etc.

LuckyHazelFox · 09/09/2026 07:48

Cheeks4970 · 09/09/2026 07:45

He allowed money to be sent into Gaza from Qatar.

Think about why.

Cheeks4970 · 09/09/2026 07:45

Normalized · 08/09/2026 23:49

In what way did he support them? Specifically?

He allowed money to be sent into Gaza from Qatar.

LuckyHazelFox · 09/09/2026 07:36

TrishM80 · 09/09/2026 07:31

Israel is the most prolific and effective childkilling machine on the planet.

I've seen some sickening posts - direct and indirect- but this one is particularly sick. Do you care to cast your mind back to the holocaust. Try thinking before making insensitive comments by trying to point score. It says a hell of a lot about your motives.

TrishM80 · 09/09/2026 07:31

Israel is the most prolific and effective childkilling machine on the planet.

Gingerclove · 09/09/2026 07:26

Objectively from an outsiders point of view, with no affiliation to either side and as an atheist, it ultimately comes down to religion and both sides believing it’s their religious home. If they all shared the same belief system then this wouldn’t be an issue would it. Same with Northern Ireland and the Protestant and Catholic fighting.

The Troubles in Northern Ireland weren’t about differing religious beliefs!🙄

Makkka · 09/09/2026 07:04

HappiestSleeping · 07/09/2026 05:50

You should look at history a bit more closely. Have a look at what that area was called around 900 years BC.

The whole thing is crazy. During that time people lived there, all together. It's religion (as always) that split them apart and started the fights.

Absolutely nailed it. I couldn’t agree more. Objectively from an outsiders point of view, with no affiliation to either side and as an atheist, it ultimately comes down to religion and both sides believing it’s their religious home. If they all shared the same belief system then this wouldn’t be an issue would it. Same with Northern Ireland and the Protestant and Catholic fighting.

I realise that it’s not quite that simple and not all Jews are religious and that NI was to do with still being part of Britain or wanting to be separate, but generally it’s religion at the heart if it. It’s like Afghanistan and their extreme and warped interpretation of religion (as well as many other middle eastern countries) who treat women like animals and bacs to suffer extreme oppression due to these abhorrent medieval warped views.

It’s the same as Western countries who preach women shouldn’t be allowed an abortion under any circumstances because it wouldn’t suit god. How dare anyone dictate what someone can do with their own bodies because of a belief system they hold.

The suffering that goes on in this world in the name of religion is absolutely mind boggling to me and I find it so difficult to understand his people in 2026 there isn’t more critical analysis going on. If only people could live in peace and get on

Skodacool · 09/09/2026 06:43

It’s so easy isn’t it to say that anything you disagree with is ‘not true’ and to declare people ‘Jew haters’. As we will see from the current debate about illegal West Bank settlements, the argument continues.

HelenaWaiting · 09/09/2026 02:14

SpottyPyjama · 07/09/2026 05:48

Well, thousands of people were killed and displaced by having their homes stolen, so I’d say so, yes.

That's just not true, is it?

BlessedIsTheFruit · 09/09/2026 01:46

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 23:15

Netanyahu supported Hamas, there are many articles for you to read about it and the reasons why.

Netanyahu did not support Hamas as a terrorist entity with a mandate to annihilate Israel and kill all the Jews.

Netanyahu's responsibility was/is for the safety of Israeli citizens and security of the State..

No credible or sane Israeli politician could ever argue that a Palestinian State wouldn't be a massive security threat to Israel, on the level of an Oct 7th every week, as the majority of Israelis are well aware that the Palestinian national identity was created solely as a vehicle to try to destroy Israel, a vehicle that hasn't changed course for almost 60 years!

Giving them autonomy over importation of military hardware, weapons etc, the use of planes and boats, would be the clearest cut case of State sanctioned suicide ever seen.

I think most Israelis are well aware the goal of the Palestinians is not just for their own State but for their own State including Israel. Their supporters chanting from 'The River to the Sea' know this too.

Preventing a Palestinian State is a valid position from ANY Israeli leader.

Anyone dumb enough not to see that is not worth debating with.

Normalized · 08/09/2026 23:49

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 23:15

Netanyahu supported Hamas, there are many articles for you to read about it and the reasons why.

In what way did he support them? Specifically?

OP posts:
Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 23:15

Normalized · 08/09/2026 20:44

Israel didn't support Hamas, though if you read just the headline (of an opinion piece, just saying), you might get that impression. Read the actual article and what it comes down to is Israel treating the government of Gaza as the government of Gaza.

Netanyahu supported Hamas, there are many articles for you to read about it and the reasons why.

Neverstopwondering · 08/09/2026 20:52

Normalized · 08/09/2026 20:44

Israel didn't support Hamas, though if you read just the headline (of an opinion piece, just saying), you might get that impression. Read the actual article and what it comes down to is Israel treating the government of Gaza as the government of Gaza.

How dare they do that

Outrageous

Simply outrageous I tell you

Normalized · 08/09/2026 20:44

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 18:15

I would like to ask why no one has mentioned Israel’s support of Hamas
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

Israel didn't support Hamas, though if you read just the headline (of an opinion piece, just saying), you might get that impression. Read the actual article and what it comes down to is Israel treating the government of Gaza as the government of Gaza.

OP posts:
Normalized · 08/09/2026 20:42

Comesround · 08/09/2026 15:08

I can see that you started this thread with only one purpose, to spout misinformation, and there is no talking to someone like that.

Actually I've been very accurate. Because I'm sticking to the facts around who started the wars in 47-48, and not allowing haters to distract me with irrelevant issues.

OP posts:
LuckyHazelFox · 08/09/2026 18:53

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 18:52

"turn his back on his countrymen"? He was born in New York.

Oh dear.

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 18:52

LuckyHazelFox · 08/09/2026 18:39

How jolly good of him. He decides to turn his back on his countrymen so his big bold message should be sacred. Just as well he doesn't speak for a whole race.

"turn his back on his countrymen"? He was born in New York.

LuckyHazelFox · 08/09/2026 18:39

Lovebombednotloved · 08/09/2026 18:35

Norman Finkelstein says that he refuses to condemn Hamas. He thinks the ‘condemnation chorus’ is part of the problem. because in reality the 7th October represented a slave uprising. He poses the question ‘What choice did they have? Die as slaves or die rebelling against the State which has imprisoned them in an open prison called Gaza, and implemented a policy of murder, oppression and dispossession against the Palestinian people’.

How jolly good of him. He decides to turn his back on his countrymen so his big bold message should be sacred. Just as well he doesn't speak for a whole race.

Lovebombednotloved · 08/09/2026 18:35

Norman Finkelstein says that he refuses to condemn Hamas. He thinks the ‘condemnation chorus’ is part of the problem. because in reality the 7th October represented a slave uprising. He poses the question ‘What choice did they have? Die as slaves or die rebelling against the State which has imprisoned them in an open prison called Gaza, and implemented a policy of murder, oppression and dispossession against the Palestinian people’.

LuckyHazelFox · 08/09/2026 18:29

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 18:15

I would like to ask why no one has mentioned Israel’s support of Hamas
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

You are way behind the times with keeping your enemies close.

Cheeks4970 · 08/09/2026 18:21

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 18:15

I would like to ask why no one has mentioned Israel’s support of Hamas
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

because that doesn’t fit with their preferred narrative that Israel is always the victim.

Skodacool · 08/09/2026 18:15

I would like to ask why no one has mentioned Israel’s support of Hamas
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/