To be annoyed nobody mentioned who started the war

Just to add there are other reasons people want to stay in the UK!
The NHS for example.
It’s not just Protestants or British or Unionists (the hint is in the name!) who want to stay.
Brexit again highlighted the differences though.

Overall NI voted against Brexit but there was clear divide depending on background.
‘85% of Catholics voted Remain compared to only 40% of Protestants, and 88% of people who describe themselves as ‘nationalist’ voted Remain compared to only 34% of ‘unionists’. Similarly, 87% of respondents who identify as Irish voted Remain, compared to only 37% of British identifiers.’

Because they identify as British, unlike the native Irish. That is their heritage.

Religious affiliation is a shorthand way of identifying the communities.

There are British flags in NI because people who identify as British put them there.

Identity in NI is complex. Many of the hardline Unionists would never describe themselves as Irish (something that I think is not at all clear to many in GB!)
Many in the nationalist community do not identify as British.
The census information makes it clear, even though these were taken post GFA so things have softened somewhat.

(ETA Clink on the image to view it properly.)

There will aways be wars in various names, power hungry maniacs (Putin), due to cultural differences, religion differences and varying other factors, but notably religion is often prevalent in that particular society and peope hold strong faith.

The Middle East is a prime example, being a very religious area and this seems to creates conflict, not in isolation and some would say it’s x y or a, buy if you look at the way women are treated in the most religions countries it’s heartbreaking and that’s what I means when I say religion has a lot to answer for. If you look at secular countries there are problems of course but nothing in comparison

The hundreds year war lasted as long as it did because the Burgundians sided with England.

So are you saying that religion played no role in the Troubles?

The example you use about the French is moot because French view themselves as such and nothing to do with England. You wouldn’t find many British Flags in France regardless of being the same religion.

The Irish wanted their independence and fair enough but it was the Protestants who were more keen to stay part of Britain so why do you think that is?

As pointed out denomination is used as a short-hand for communities in Ireland. The Irish didn’t object to English rule because they were Protestant, just like the French didn’t say ‘ok, come and rule us we are both Catholics after all’ during the hundred years war.

The fact we’re discussing Catholic/Protestant regarding identities, shows how much religion can be a huge influence over it and why religion can be problematic and cause more harm than good.

I’m not minimising the significance religion has on identity. I’m saying a difference in religious beliefs is not why the Troubles happened in NI. Systemic discrimination against one community (the Irish, Catholic one) was why things erupted.

You’re minimising the significance religion had on identity. The majority of Catholics didn’t want NI to be part of Britain, because Britain was considered Protestant. Of course it was political because land and settlement is by nature political, but the underlying theme was historically religious.

Have you been to NI? Have you noticed the British flags in certain areas? Did you see the size of the wall to separate the two sides? There will have been some mixed areas but there were areas where people would live with others who shared their political views and that was generally whether they were Catholic or Protestant.

I rolled my eyes because it was a stupid comment regarding NI.
Religion was not ‘at the heart of it’, it didn’t all ‘ultimately come down to religion’ in the case of the Troubles. Religion was a marker indicating the ethnic community you were from (as were names, addresses, schools attended etc) and, as such, it was used as a shorthand or label. Certainly, there was widespread distrust and othering of the opposing community (and this included their religion) but the conflict was political and territorial at heart. It started as a civil rights movement.

What you've written is not a complete, accurate or balanced representation of historical facts. It is a crafted narrative for a specific purpose and the intention is clearly not to inform. You're getting your facts from an echo chamber somewhere and that will help no one.

I don't think they're in any way trying to suggest that the Holocaust was not an unfathomably atrocious event. I don't read anything that has been written as a dismissal of that. Positive steps were taken to try to ensure the Holocaust never happened again, with the Holocaust obviously being the reason or triggering event for those steps. That is not a dismissal of the Holocaust. At the same time, it's also possible that other steps might be taken following the Holocaust that are not appropriate and perpetrate negative or even atrocious outcomes for other communities and perhaps even eventually Jewish communities around the world. It's ok to talk about that and work towards solutions for everyone. It's not a dismissal of what happened. It's about trying to ensure that further atrocities happen to no one.

I don't know if you are deliberately spreading misinformation or if this is really the version of history that has been sold to you.

I'm not going to correct you because I'm aware of the pressures facing the Jewish community around the world and rehashing those events could lead to further trouble for them.

So I'm posting simply to say to anyone reading this thread: do your own research and do not take t what you read here at face value. They are counting on no one fact checking. It is a gross distortion of some events with other events, on which a great deal turned, completely ommitted.

Please don't allow this kind of poster to contribute to the hatred that is causing so much pain to families who have done nothing to deserve it. Think about why they started this thread and how far it contributes to the healing that we all want to see for communities on every side of this tragic situation.

Yes, no Palestinian State ever existed.

Before Israel's inception there were Jews and Arabs. The Arabs refused to declare their own sovereign State in 1948 because they wanted ALL the land including what is now Israel.

Despite 78% of the British Mandate for Palestine already being given to the Arabs for an Arab State - Jordan.

Interestingly, there's no P (for Palestine) in Arabic.

There were colonisers over 2000 years before that - the Akkadian Empire around 2300 BC. The Phoenicians, indigenous to the area, became colonisers themselves 3000 years ago.

Sorry to be a bit confused but to clarify - before the creation of Israel it was a British mandate area and before that part of the Turkish empire?

You mean the Ottomans? They certainly did!

You really don't know the history of the region, do you? Its always so easy to say imperialism and colonialism are responsible for events. Sorry, but that's something I would expect from a 15 year old.

But was it the UN declaration or the end of the British mandate? The withdrawal of what had been a significant power in the area would have destabilised the region regardless of arrangements put in place after.

you're minimising.
its fairly common currency that imperialism screws up a place.