AIBU to question a workplace evacuation plan for disabled colleagues?

When I started school in the early 00s (new build) the instructions for my classmate who used a wheel chair was to 'shelter in place' in the stairwells, which were all behind a fire door, and wait for there for the fire bridge. We were told the fire doors would keep back flames for at least 60minutes. I'm not sure how the fire brigade knows how to locate the person though

For a public building, wouldn't they have a plan of the building showing where the refuges are? And the person in charge of the evacuation should know where everyone is or should be.

Note that the refuge areas mentioned in a couple of posts are not for individuals to be left waiting for the fire brigade.

There is no legal obligation for individual firefighters to go looking for people to evacuate - they do, but can die doing so, even worse when they are looking for an individual who isn’t there

The legal obligation is with the responsible party - employer, building management etc and the refuge is to help gain time for the proper evacuation plan to be put into effect

A refuge may or may not exist depending on building design & age
Evacuation chairs should be provided in relation to stairwells and numbers of people

It can be reasonable to have “everyone” with a responsibility, but not for a PEEP.
Anyone who is going to use an evacuation chair (including who will be evacuated) must be trained in its use

Someone in my building 4 floors up in a mobility scooter who must weigh 30 stones. Sorry if the building is on fire I’m leaving her behind 🤷🏻‍♀️. My priority is my safety. I can’t help her she must be 3x my weight. I’ve never seen an evac chair but even if there was one I’m not using it.

afaik the advice is they are to wait by the lift, there’s a button to press on the wall where they can talk to someone to inform them they’re waiting.

It all changed after the Grenfell fire
Before this the advice was to leave people as safely as you could
Now everywhere has to have a fire plan .

Are there any people working with you that you would need to worry about?

I think it needs to be tailored to the individual person. In my old workplace we had a wheelchair user who didn't like the evac chair. Instead, three larger colleagues (one extra for holiday cover) were designated to carry him down in his own chair, after waiting in the stairwell for the main crowds to thin out. They were well-rehearsed in this and it worked pretty well whenever there was a fire drill.

You would also need up to date training for whoever would have to use it.

And you need to make sure there will always be enough trained staff on site.

Probably a lot less hassle to find an excuse not to offer a role to someone who is less able.

That is dreadful - who wrote the plan?

I work in an office with 3 floors. My dept works on the ground floor. Only managers and those trained on the Evac-chair should be helping those who have difficulties - temporary or permanent out of the building.

Those who have difficulties should have a PEEP - personal emergency evacuation plan. Even those with temporary disabilities such as using crutches due to broken/badly injured or surgery on lower limb, will need a PEEP.

I have a PEEP as even though my dept is on the ground floor, we can do training in any of the floors. As due to visual condition, I am slow down the stairs and require holding a stair rail.

Is it a tickbox exercise because there are no disabled employees or are there people who have restricted mobility in the workplace already? If the former then I wouldn’t be concerned because they should be reviewing if an applicable person joins. If there’s already staff in place then a evac chair should be the minimum along with half a dozen or so people who are shown how to use it safely

YANBU
I had to devise a safety plan for a team member and discovered that the fire lift was not operational and hadn't been for several years because there was no back up battery and no budget to acquire one. The 'plan' is that disabled colleagues wait in the stairwell which is fire safe for 15 minutes (and hope the fire brigade arrive in time??)
My team member can walk down stairs very slowly and could get out within 15 minutes but honestly she would need assistance and it's a lot to expect random people in the building to take the time to help people down stairs when they are just as keen to evacuate a potentially burning building.

If it is a new job I am not sure I would raise it if you aren't disabled.

I am disabled and used to work on the fourth floor. 7 years ago the plan was for those with mobility issues to go down the stairs on their bottom. Presumably the fire of bomb would have encouraged speed.

I would get secret advance warning of fire alarm practice times as they didn't want to test their stairs and bottom practice as then the fire alarm test would take too long. Advance notice meant I could exit via lift and appear as if by miracle.

I did not flag the obvious issues as I was the only one with a disability and I wanted to keep the job until I was ready to retire.

I would not expect anyone to flag this up for my benefit as the sort of firm that has this type of health and safety policy is bound to have dodgy HR .

Have you passed probation? Could you get another job? Most disabled people would not want you to put your job at risk.

Lol.

just lol

i got a PEEP after my school actually had a fire and the senior management checked their fire safety policies. After I think nine years of working there in a wheelchair.

There should be an evac chair(s) and if you agree to be on point to use it you need to be trained etc

An individual PEEP for those with disabilities is a legal requirement under H&S law. “Your colleagues will probably help you” is not adequate. If there is an emergency then they are currently looking at being sued by an employee who injures themself helping a colleague, an employee without a PEEP who is left in danger, or both.

Not in my experience it isn’t. Schools will go out if their way to timetable student with mobility needs in rooms on the ground floor, and where this wasn’t possible they will have a clear PEEP (personal emergency evacuation plan) for each such student. They will have Evc chairs and the fire wardens will be fully aware of such pupils.

I'm pretty sure there should be an evacuation chair with a certain number of people trained how to use it.

When I started school in the early 00s (new build) the instructions for my classmate who used a wheel chair was to 'shelter in place' in the stairwells, which were all behind a fire door, and wait for there for the fire bridge. We were told the fire doors would keep back flames for at least 60minutes. I'm not sure how the fire brigade knows how to locate the person though, maybe the class teacher was responsible for letting them know where the person was. In a real fire I can imagine that would be an incredibly lonely and scary wait.

I’m disabled and use a wheelchair.

i worked for ten years in a school in my wheelchair.

for at least seven years there was no evacuation plan for me at all.

we got a new head of department three years before I left who wasn’t happy about this and got an evav chair and got people trained in how to use it,

it’s completely normal to have no plan. In theory ehen I go to a hotel they are supposed to check in with me and show me the evacuation plan. This has happened twice in my life (and I travel a LOT).

you’ll never be asked to do this.

I raised the exact same issue with our safety representative a couple of months ago and got told that it isn't an issue because we don't have anyone who's got decreased mobility.

But we can all get decreased mobility. Temporary or permanent. So now I have mentioned it to our union representatives at a meeting this week.

The fire service normally has their advice is that all able bodied people should get out first.
This is because they then get out of the way leaving less people for them to assist out.

However I think "should assist" is a difficult one. Because what does that consist of?
I can imagine if I was in the situation where someone needed an arm going down the stairs then that would be fine.
However if they needed carrying, then you'd end up with two casualties if I tried: then having been dropped and me with my back...

But there needs to be more than just "should assist" because they can't assume that the person who needs help isn't fully immobile in their lower half, and 25stone 6"6' and alone with someone who is 5' and 1/3 the weight.
There should be either an evacuation fire safe place (you can have an area that will be protected for up to 2 hours) or evacuation chairs (which, having tried are an absolute nightmare - when I tried we used a child as an experiment. They were about 5-6yo and still the chair was very difficult to use, bigger would be much harder) or another method.

Does this mean if the disabled person injured themselves you're liable? As a disabled person I wouldn't be happy with some random person with virtually no knowledge of my disabilities helping me in an emergency

What kind of building is the workplace in and what is the nature of the business? There are very different levels of risk in an office building and a factory. Are any employees and visitors physically disabled and working or visiting any floors above the ground floor?

The point is that the evacuation plan needs to be proportionate to the level of risk.

My DD is disabled so we have experience of this from the other side, and that plan is bullshit!

She will only ever go upstairs in a building if there is an evacuation chair and someone who is specifically designated and trained to use it.

She doesn’t want Bob from accounts and Steve from HR having a bash at carrying her thanks very much! And nor should her colleagues be worried that they would have to do that. Even her own personal career is not supposed to stay and help her and the agency states they must get themselves out safely.

It means she is often prevented from using buildings even though they have a lift, because there is no evacuation chair. But her safety comes first.

This is quite typical in schools evacuation plans that adults who happen to be nearby are responsible for pupils with limited mobility, and it's really just a case of pulling together to do what's needed not to leave anyone inside.

Plenty of female teachers of your height can't manage to physically assist a teen boy a foot taller than them, or manoeuvre wheelchairs easily or routinely (especially while they're also simultaneously responsible for checking attendance of a different group at the assembly point), but in an emergency, you don't wait for someone else.

Edited to add - don't wait for someone else to appear to offer help, (not don't wait for someone struggling and see to your self)

Where I worked in the 90s we were on floor 4 I think and when we had a fire emergency practice session and weren't allowed to use the lifts, someone carried a disabled person down the stairs on his back! I'm glad to hear things have improved.

In my workplace we have been expressly told we must not help others on our way out…..there will be an allocated person dealing with the person with limited mobility. But our fire alarm training is years old and as I work as a postie there is an almost non existent chance of someone with mobility issues being in the building.