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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to stop helping after injuring myself lifting elderly neighbour?

271 replies

Barney221 · 05/09/2026 21:11

We are a rural road of 5 houses. One house is lived in by an elderly couple one of which has dementia and the other is paralyzed. Over the last few years the gentleman who is paralyzed has fallen frequently and the rest of us have been called and gone and picked him up. We are all 60 plus except for one lad in his 20s.

This afternoon all the male members of the 3 closest homes were out. He fell from his wheelchair in his mobility van and as the only 2 people available my female neighbour and I were summoned by his wife. She and I couldn't get him up so rang another elderly male neighbour. He came and he worked from the front whilst I pulled him from the back. We got him into the wheelchair but it then slipped back into me propelling me backwards down the ramp and off it onto the tarmac drive. Hes fine but I've had to go to a and e and I've got ruptured ligaments in one knee and bruising rand cuts to both and I'm struggling to walk. I'm unlikely to be able to drive for a few days and I'm self employed.

My husband is livid and is saying that he will call the couples kids tomorrow and tell them we are no longer available to pick him up. This will include DHs brother who Is one of 5 houses. Is that unreasonable?

OP posts:
Raspbellies · Yesterday 15:00

Yanbu. They need a safer home set up and a falls watch / alarm. Call 999 if they fall again. You'll all end up injured otherwise.

TheOnlyWayIsIlford · Yesterday 14:59

YANBU, and none of you should have been doing this in the first place.

I’m in my 60s, fit, go to the gym etc, but the truth is that it is not safe for untrained people to do this. Not for you, not for the casualty.

It’s bad enough that you are so badly hurt. The neighbour could also have fallen off the ramp and cracked his skull.

I do hope you recover as quickly as possible.

Never do this again. If he is on the floor you can get him a pillow, put a blanket on him etc and get professional help.

My Dad had a few episodes of lying on the carpet under a blanket after his carers called an ambulance.

CarbootJunction · Yesterday 14:57

I'm in a similar position with a neighbour. Her relatives live in the next town, but she wouldn't dream of inconveniencing them for anything like picking her up off the floor, doing her shopping, or running a million errands. Oh no, that falls to everyone in the street, who are becoming increasingly old/ill/frail themselves.
The final straw for me was when she dropped into the conversation that I should claim for a carer's allowance? WTF?!!! I don't think so.
My line has been drawn, and it is up to you, OP. Not your circus, and definitely not your monkeys.

YourRedLurker · Yesterday 14:52

Ponoka7 · Yesterday 14:12

@YourRedLurker in various areas of Merseyside the fire brigade are used for lifting. Under a lot of circumstances carers won't do it, or rather the company have already legislated for this and it's been agreed either paramedics via cars, or the fire brigade. The same paramedics go out to, death in the home and will move the body, is necessary. I was a home carer and a carer in the family/friends.
OP, I had a relative that was lifted out of the bath a few times, by the fire brigade, until they realised they couldn't carry on getting a bath.
People thought her son was awful for refusing to lift her, but either of them could have been injured and she was in denial, so it was in everyone's best interests that he didn't. This was at the end of life and he was in his 60s.

Funny how different it is per area. We can't get fire to attend until ambulance onscene - so for example 999 call - I can see my neighbour on the floor in the lounge, they pressed pendant and can't get up so I was asked to visit, house is locked and I can't get in - fire won't attend as they class this as an ambulance service job - but ambulance service doesn't have any special means tools for access beyond smashed a window with a rock, so whilst fire crew might be available and we know they're going to be required for access they don't go until ambulance service is in attendance and request when they confirm door is indeed locked.

Tunnocksmallow · Yesterday 14:42

EmeraldRoulette · 05/09/2026 22:40

@Tunnocksmallow probably because we’ve got experience of the person in question needing to be the person who is talked to directly

The gentleman they are lifting has capacity so he needs to be told directly that he has to put other arrangements in place.

I will also bet money that he doesn’t listen to his kids!

What makes you think I have no experience in this?
I’ve worked as a professional carer, a family carer, ended up roped into helping a neighbour, etc etc. I understand stand about capacity, but it is not on thw OP or her DH or any other neighbours to speak to the neighbours and make him see sense; it is on their children and/or social services.

OP, tell the family why is going on. Call an ambulance every time. And fill in the local council online referral.
Trust me, your DH may go back years with this family(my neighbours watched my dad grow up, and then me, and then my children ; and when the Old Man was left alone to decline I did all I could to help) but I got no thanks, and when I moved and he died, we weren’t even informed.
you’ve been injured now, and I’m sure they won’t help you!

Gobbledegoo · Yesterday 14:40

pestowithwalnuts · 05/09/2026 21:46

Crikey blimey..! How did all that end ?

They employed full time carers for a while and then she went in a home and died. We had been friends with them for many years but DD didn't tell us when she died funeral arrangements etc! Other neighbours had also helped over time and they were shouted at also then ignored. Lovely DD & Partner.

Ponoka7 · Yesterday 14:12

@YourRedLurker in various areas of Merseyside the fire brigade are used for lifting. Under a lot of circumstances carers won't do it, or rather the company have already legislated for this and it's been agreed either paramedics via cars, or the fire brigade. The same paramedics go out to, death in the home and will move the body, is necessary. I was a home carer and a carer in the family/friends.
OP, I had a relative that was lifted out of the bath a few times, by the fire brigade, until they realised they couldn't carry on getting a bath.
People thought her son was awful for refusing to lift her, but either of them could have been injured and she was in denial, so it was in everyone's best interests that he didn't. This was at the end of life and he was in his 60s.

godmum56 · Yesterday 13:36

Nearly50omg · Yesterday 13:01

My mom was severely injured as a nurse lifting patients and never recovered and had pain and disability for 50 years thanks to lifting people - correctly - just her back wasn’t up to it but until she was injured they didn’t know about it! Why haven’t the neighbours got hoists etc to lift the bloke when he falls? As he’s paralysed then this is standard equipment so that one person can use the hoist and not put themselves at risk!

I have got a minor back injury due to manual handling doing it correctly in the NHS. For part of my career I was actually a trainer, both in equipment and lifting completely manually. part of what I used to teach was risk assessment and what was known as "alternative techniques" and this included when to "say no and get help" I should say I never taught ambulance staff.
I really wouldn't want to work for an organisation where there was "radio silence" over certain practices. When the shit hits the fan it would be all to easy for managers to say "we never told them to do that, they shouldn't have been doing that."

Friendlygingercat · Yesterday 13:13

My NDN had dementia and deteriorated rapidly after her husband died. Her children live hundreds of miles away and she did not always answer the phone. Another nosy neighbour asked me to be a joint keyholder and I refused absolutely. She wanted me to be prepared to go into the house to check NDN was all right if she did not answer, NDN and I have never got on and I would have been extremely reluctant to go alone into the home of a person I did not like. One could be accused of all kinds of misdeeds including theft or abuse. I have mobility issues myself and would not even attempt to lift another person.

Despite my declining to become involved the neighbour asked me to "think it over" and left a note with her contact details pinned to the gate. My nephew was so angry he went to "have a word" with her. Fortunately for her she was out so he ripped up the note and posted it back through her door. The NDN has since moved in with her relatives and someone returns every 2/3 weeks to check on the house. I hear the grandkids playing in the garden. Then it goes quiet again. There has been at least one attempted break in. The nosy neighbour has since moved out.

Officially I do not "see" or "hear" anything. Its the best way.

godmum56 · Yesterday 13:07

Francestein · Yesterday 13:00

I think a call to social services to let them know that the kids aren’t helping and it’s too much to expect the neighbours to pick up after them.

they will ask if you have the person's permission to call and as soon as you say no, that will be that. And that is right. How would you like other people contacting social services about you?

Nearly50omg · Yesterday 13:01

My mom was severely injured as a nurse lifting patients and never recovered and had pain and disability for 50 years thanks to lifting people - correctly - just her back wasn’t up to it but until she was injured they didn’t know about it! Why haven’t the neighbours got hoists etc to lift the bloke when he falls? As he’s paralysed then this is standard equipment so that one person can use the hoist and not put themselves at risk!

Francestein · Yesterday 13:00

I think a call to social services to let them know that the kids aren’t helping and it’s too much to expect the neighbours to pick up after them.

Nearly50omg · Yesterday 12:50

godmum56 · Yesterday 10:13

yes but not to lift him.

Why should the neighbours be disturbed at 3am by other neighbours?!!

YourRedLurker · Yesterday 12:24

diddledoodum · Yesterday 11:59

I think you saying that you’d tell carers to lift someone is possibly misleading. However small a person is, if they are a dead weight and and completely unable to assist to move themselves, then carers could not safely get them up from the floor without using equipment (hoist, lifting cushion, sliding sheets etc). In a care home, I would expect them to have access to these things and to use them as appropriate. . In a persons home, they most likely won’t have them. Wouldn’t establishing this be part of your triage? Are you not giving guidance to the carers on how to utilise techniques that utilise the person’s strength and movement along with any available equipment to support backward chaining to get them up? Not literally drag lifting a dead weight off the floor into a chair?
I’ve been doing my job for a very long time and I have never known a paramedic triage advise that a person be lifted in these circumstances.

Not being in the room there's too many variables for how to get someone up, and absolutely they should have that kit on hand but they shouldn't need me to try to tell them how to use it - the carer can use their training/previous experience to best address this i.e. they're going to have far more knowledge of their capabilities. If they say they can't do it and explain why then either we might be able to give a suggestion based on that, or they're unable and the resident will just have to wait on the floor.

In my experience that part has never been an issue, it's that the carer feels they need a name/authorisation to help the person up. It's not uncommon for it to sound like they're actively restraining someone who's trying to get up! (Care plan says speak to 999 before getting them up after fall). We also now get a lot of falls reporting - i.e. Dorris had unwitnessed fall from bed this morning - we lifted her up and seems fine just having breakfast now - do you want to come see her to check for injuries... I.e. a minimum wage work with a first aid certificate being asked to take on a huge responsibility for these frail residents, 'can you give me some cover/piece of mind please if anyone pops a complaint in later or it turns out tomorrow xyz occurs and I never called anyone....' Which I'm absolutely fine happy to support/and completely on board with - normally no visit required but occasionally it is.

We (ambulance service) barely have capacity to get to immediately life threatening emergencies - strokes and heart attacks waiting over an hour routinely, rtcs with fatalities, cardiac arrest 15-20min responses for ambulance relying on first aiders/volunteers to take up the slack on these jobs... We can't lift every frail person who falls to 'check them out' despite no outward sign of injury illness.

Ohwhatfuckeryitistoride · Yesterday 12:16

I'd also make sure all your neighbours are on the same page. Imagine if someone felt pressured into doing something alone. The injuries to both parties could be catastrophic.
Does the second person on the house have capacity to understand how serious their situation is? Maybe a call to adult social care for a welfare check? (If a non related person can do that and if welfare checks teams exist)

Maisymouse2 · Yesterday 12:05

Does he nit have a belt to hold him into the wheelchair?
Surely a medical alert or some such for them would be safer?

diddledoodum · Yesterday 11:59

YourRedLurker · Yesterday 11:33

If no carers lifted in any circumstances then wait times would be measured in days for ambulances and the harm would be huge.

Carers are lifting all the time - we have an urgent care line in the operations centre for them to call directly if they feel they need permission/cover first - essentially can you provide a triage for the patient and tell us it's safe to lift them/support them up and we will do.

Yep we have no training in lifting manually - it's just on the job learning really. In terms of kit we get trained to use scoop stretcher (generally only used in major trauma/RTC), manger elk or razor chair to lift in a home, slide sheet to get them onto it. But they all only work in an open space - we would absolutely use them in an open space because much safer - but otherwise it's just grab what you can reach and pull. There's no training for that, partly because training probably wouldn't change how people did it - it's just how you pick a kid up from the floor/common sense really, and also because they don't want to acknowledge it happens/it never sounds great in writing and absolutely ultimately there is risk to the person doing the lift - but also radio silence on how do you get someone up when they've fallen in a tiny bathroom and no room for any kit at all. I

In care home setting you have the space - but if you have to wait hours for ambulance crew then that's a lot of unnecessary suffering if staff have some kit of are physically able to lift.

In the eoc now if in a fall in a care home setting (so you know more than one member of staff etc not talking about a random on the street in their own), if in triage theres no obvious injury identified we will ask staff to lift the resident themselves - if they refuse we ask why and highlight that leaving them on the floor can result in serious harm, if the refusal is based around policy or just staff refusal then we have to document name/manager - because it is a refusal to render first aid to someone they have a duty of care over.

Of course if the carer says "can't because our lifting cushion broke this morning and the resident weighs 120kg" then that's just unfortunate. But if it's either a care home who hasn't brought any lifting kit - despite charging thousands in fees per week - that's negligent. If refusing to lift because they're not comfortable in taking that on themselves - you're right probably nothing will come of that but they could absolutely be told that this was the contributor to death in coroner's if it led to rhabdomyolysis (injury from a long lie, generally considered more than an hour, that leads to muscle breakdown - kidney failure). Legally speaking if you've got a duty of care you're taking more risk in refusing to help then in helping and causing another injury in doing so I.e skin tear etc.

What if a paramedic turns up and they're >90kg in a tiny space can't get any lifting kit in - imagine if we refused! If you have a duty of care you've got to render aid where able. If a resident/patient was light then that's very different to a weight that clearly can't be lifted by hand - we quite often goto people now >120kg who've had a life threatening medical event if they can't stand/get out, or transfer to a carry chair, or be in a position that we can get lifting kit in - essentially if they die due to delay getting them out it's unfortunate but just what it is. If the person was 40kg then I'm not sure how youd justify watching them die in the chair instead of top and tailing them onto a carry chair/pulling them out the building.

I think you saying that you’d tell carers to lift someone is possibly misleading. However small a person is, if they are a dead weight and and completely unable to assist to move themselves, then carers could not safely get them up from the floor without using equipment (hoist, lifting cushion, sliding sheets etc). In a care home, I would expect them to have access to these things and to use them as appropriate. . In a persons home, they most likely won’t have them. Wouldn’t establishing this be part of your triage? Are you not giving guidance to the carers on how to utilise techniques that utilise the person’s strength and movement along with any available equipment to support backward chaining to get them up? Not literally drag lifting a dead weight off the floor into a chair?
I’ve been doing my job for a very long time and I have never known a paramedic triage advise that a person be lifted in these circumstances.

Bobcurlygirl · Yesterday 11:45

OneLilacHedgehog · Yesterday 10:11

Sheltered housing won't stop falls. It's a warden about who would call an ambulance, that is all. Care homes have more aids to prevent falls, but cannot stop them.

I didn't say it would stop falls but they are better managed to detect and help. My aunt lives in one, they wear a bracelet that connects to something and alerts the nearby care home if she falls. She doesn't even need to sound the alarm it's all automatic. The care home send someone to assess and whether they can help her up or call the ambulance.

YourRedLurker · Yesterday 11:45

godmum56 · Yesterday 11:30

A few things to stay here. I have twice known a person walk on a fractured femur. In one case, I have done a complete home assessment including two car rides. In both cases they said they "ached a bit" and there were no external symptoms at the time. Its entirely possible for someone to make a wrong judgement about their own physical state.
I get that carers work in people's homes and sometimes places are cluttered and inaccessible (falls in bathrooms and loos....nighmare, especially if the door opens inwards). The thing with paid carers is that they must operate within the T and C of their employment and the users of that service should understand those as well. If it ever did go to court, which I doubt, then the carers are more likely to be protected if they were operating within their training and the T's and C's of their employer.
Actually the "paid carer" thing goes further than that. In the NHS, if things do go wrong, the best protection that an employee has is that they were working within the rules of what they can and cannot do. Qualified clinicians additionally may adduce "Clinical Judgement" to break the rules but in that case they need to be able to demonstrate the chain of their clinical reasoning. So you might say eg " they were stuck under the bed and we were unable to move the bed without risking the bed collapsing"

I'm not sure your first point is too relevant - that tolerable ache with normal leg movements on floor that turns into a nof# it's still completely fine to get them up without it being some kind of specialist operation. I was differentiating the patient who was obviously injured/severe pain - because it's pretty rare anyone's going to try and lift this person themselves/clear benefit to ambulance assistance.

When triaging on the phone with carers following them getting them up the next step is a mobility assessment - I.e. limp/not happy to stand and walk themselves/doesn't look right - then further assessment is arranged - if care home that'll probably be ambulance, if in a home itll be - can you get them in a car to a&e, but if not ambulance - but in both cases they can now wait in a chair/bed not laid on floor. If they seem fine then worsening advice is given/onwards monitoring and when they should call back.

godmum56 · Yesterday 11:37

AprilMizzel · Yesterday 11:19

That's good.

MIL was helping her neigbour and stoppe during covid due to risks - couple got very nasty and later turned out their kids had been trying to get help in the house and it had all be turned down by couple becuase with MIL help they coped.

If you do not get a good reponse from kids who may be in denial - Adult Social Care would be the next step.

You will be asked if you have the persons permission to discuss it. If someone is competent, they wont even visit without the persons agreement

YourRedLurker · Yesterday 11:33

diddledoodum · Yesterday 10:45

I disagree. I know that paramedics will too and tail someone, I’ve seen it done. I’m surprised to hear that you don’t get any additional training.

But I disagree with there being an expectation that paid carers should life someone who has fallen. A 40kg dead weight is huge. As long as the carers did what they could to help the person help themselves (the backward chaining I mentioned earlier on), and of not possible then called 999, made them comfortable and arranged for them to be looked after until the paramedics arrived, they would have done their duty. Of course they may need to attend coroners court but that doesn’t mean they would have been in any way responsible for the persons death.

Carers absolutely shoukd not be lifting people off the floor in any circumstances.

If no carers lifted in any circumstances then wait times would be measured in days for ambulances and the harm would be huge.

Carers are lifting all the time - we have an urgent care line in the operations centre for them to call directly if they feel they need permission/cover first - essentially can you provide a triage for the patient and tell us it's safe to lift them/support them up and we will do.

Yep we have no training in lifting manually - it's just on the job learning really. In terms of kit we get trained to use scoop stretcher (generally only used in major trauma/RTC), manger elk or razor chair to lift in a home, slide sheet to get them onto it. But they all only work in an open space - we would absolutely use them in an open space because much safer - but otherwise it's just grab what you can reach and pull. There's no training for that, partly because training probably wouldn't change how people did it - it's just how you pick a kid up from the floor/common sense really, and also because they don't want to acknowledge it happens/it never sounds great in writing and absolutely ultimately there is risk to the person doing the lift - but also radio silence on how do you get someone up when they've fallen in a tiny bathroom and no room for any kit at all. I

In care home setting you have the space - but if you have to wait hours for ambulance crew then that's a lot of unnecessary suffering if staff have some kit of are physically able to lift.

In the eoc now if in a fall in a care home setting (so you know more than one member of staff etc not talking about a random on the street in their own), if in triage theres no obvious injury identified we will ask staff to lift the resident themselves - if they refuse we ask why and highlight that leaving them on the floor can result in serious harm, if the refusal is based around policy or just staff refusal then we have to document name/manager - because it is a refusal to render first aid to someone they have a duty of care over.

Of course if the carer says "can't because our lifting cushion broke this morning and the resident weighs 120kg" then that's just unfortunate. But if it's either a care home who hasn't brought any lifting kit - despite charging thousands in fees per week - that's negligent. If refusing to lift because they're not comfortable in taking that on themselves - you're right probably nothing will come of that but they could absolutely be told that this was the contributor to death in coroner's if it led to rhabdomyolysis (injury from a long lie, generally considered more than an hour, that leads to muscle breakdown - kidney failure). Legally speaking if you've got a duty of care you're taking more risk in refusing to help then in helping and causing another injury in doing so I.e skin tear etc.

What if a paramedic turns up and they're >90kg in a tiny space can't get any lifting kit in - imagine if we refused! If you have a duty of care you've got to render aid where able. If a resident/patient was light then that's very different to a weight that clearly can't be lifted by hand - we quite often goto people now >120kg who've had a life threatening medical event if they can't stand/get out, or transfer to a carry chair, or be in a position that we can get lifting kit in - essentially if they die due to delay getting them out it's unfortunate but just what it is. If the person was 40kg then I'm not sure how youd justify watching them die in the chair instead of top and tailing them onto a carry chair/pulling them out the building.

godmum56 · Yesterday 11:30

YourRedLurker · Yesterday 10:18

This is such nonsense!!! (In the UK at least). Even if it's felt first aid/lifting exacerbated an injury you're extremely well protected against a civil or criminal suit. Besides working as a paramedic because people often fall in awkward spaces (very rare to fall in middle of empty room as per the training situation) even when back/neck/hip injuries are suspected we still just have to top and tail from the floor (grab body/arms/legs) and pull them up because no room for any kit. We don't even have any training in a particular way of doing this - officially we are not allowed but ultimately if someone is wedged somewhere then you just have to grab and pull.

If you're getting someone up off the floor there's going to be a conversation first - do you want me to try and help you up? If they say no, I'm in agony with my hip - then don't lift them. If they say yes, or "I'm a bit sore here but yes can you help me" then give it a go if you feel you're able. If they're so confused they don't understand that question - probably a medical emergency 999.

It's also worth noting that whilst members of the public are fine to refuse to help some up off the floor, carers etc do have a duty of care. If someone (especially when already frail) is left on the floor for multiple hours it can quite easily go from - just needed a quick help up/carries on with day, to event that causes significant harm/potentially death due to duration on floor. The ambulance service will just say - we were delayed to excessive demand it's unfortunate (and will be able to prove call volume etc). Carer will say "no lift policy". And we all just leave the elderly patient to suffer on the floor for hours.

I don't believe it's happened yet - but at some point some relative is going to say "hang on, my mum weighed 40kg, you even have lifting equipment in the home/there was 2 of you on that visit, you watched her suffer for 6hours waiting for an ambulance when you could have intervened - where was your duty of care".... At some point some carers are going to end up in coroner's court etc defending a refusal to lift that contributed++ to someone's death which could have been avoidable and then it can goto criminal or civil to decide how reasonable refusing to help is.

Edited

A few things to stay here. I have twice known a person walk on a fractured femur. In one case, I have done a complete home assessment including two car rides. In both cases they said they "ached a bit" and there were no external symptoms at the time. Its entirely possible for someone to make a wrong judgement about their own physical state.
I get that carers work in people's homes and sometimes places are cluttered and inaccessible (falls in bathrooms and loos....nighmare, especially if the door opens inwards). The thing with paid carers is that they must operate within the T and C of their employment and the users of that service should understand those as well. If it ever did go to court, which I doubt, then the carers are more likely to be protected if they were operating within their training and the T's and C's of their employer.
Actually the "paid carer" thing goes further than that. In the NHS, if things do go wrong, the best protection that an employee has is that they were working within the rules of what they can and cannot do. Qualified clinicians additionally may adduce "Clinical Judgement" to break the rules but in that case they need to be able to demonstrate the chain of their clinical reasoning. So you might say eg " they were stuck under the bed and we were unable to move the bed without risking the bed collapsing"

chirrupybird · Yesterday 11:29

It is easy to injure someone by trying to lift them if you are not trained and if he's paralysed he may not realise you are hurting him. You really shouldn't be trying to lift him at all, get them to call 111 for advice rather than the neighbours. Or just try to make him comfortable where he has fallen until 'proper' help can get there. And it would be perfectly reasonable to refuse in future after being injured like that, however much you would like to help.

omghereistrouble · Yesterday 11:28

i am with your husband you should not be injuring yourself in order to help. i am in the same situation by me but as you never know what injuries they may have after falls i personally would leave well alone and get an ambulance. when my rather large ex fell they managed perfectly well using inflatable cushions etc which made it very easy for two petite technicians. the family need to sort things out really

OneLilacHedgehog · Yesterday 11:28

@YourRedLurker yes that is the theory. But all care homes still have people falling within them.