To think in life being a nice, good person rarely counts for much?

@Umbcordof course they don’t but they might describe themselves as ambitious, determined, charismatic, decisive, fearless, adaptable, persuasive, cool-headed, independent, magnetic, unstoppable etc etc.

All positive attributes but if underpinned by selfishness - which of course won’t be listed - then you’ve got a sociopath on your hands.

I think it holds value to be kind and decent, but I also think it is important to maintain boundaries with mostly everyone. I find people treat you much better if they firmly understand this and know not to cross the line. Took me a long time to work this out.

@marbIehallsok so I think my understanding of people please may not be correct. I do not change myself to please others, no do I shift my boundaries to fit with others expectations. But I do treat people respectfully, I take responsibility for my actions and I would never intentionally seek to upset or offend someone unless they had behaved badly themselves.

In defence of people pleasers, a lot seem to end up that way due to a childhood which was abusive or unpredictable in some way. Their needs were not met and standing up for themselves could be met with really serious consequences. So they avoid confrontation and “freeze or fawn” if it does occur.

Being a people pleaser doesn’t work of course as a strategy in adult life, but I understand how people get there.

Being nice, honest and a decent person does not mean being a doormat.

You can have good boundaries and stand up to people who want to take advantage of your kindness.

I don't want to spend time around drama queen, selfish and narcissistic individuals, bullies and users. I don't care about whatever talent, money or success they might have, life lis too short to spend it around assholes...

I try to be a decent person because I want to be able to look at myself in the mirror and know that I have done the best I can to be a worthy human being.

Frankly those bullies might look like they are successful but they are just empty and miserable in themselves.

Happy and fulfilled people don't feel the need to behave like dicks, they are too busy enjoying their life.

Do you think the likes of Elon Musk or Trump are genuinely happy? they seem to me to be some of the most miserable, soulless people on earth who always want more power and more money to try to fill the void inside and fail miserably so they take it out on the rest of the world...

People pleasers are disingenuous and fake though.

The definition of a people pleaser is A “people pleaser” personality means a person feels a strong urge to please others, even at their own expense. They may feel that their wants and needs do not matter or alter their personality around others.

This is exactly why people dont tend to want to be friends with people pleasers - leading them to cry "but why dont people want to be my friend??? I am always so helpful and kind- I dont get it" and it's exactly because they dont come across as authentic.

Hmmm. People please send to have different meanings for different people. I have described myself as such and it means that I am thoughtful of how my words and actions can affect others and I will try to amend them if they might cause hurt or upset. It doesn’t mean I am disingenuous or fake.

I think there's a critical distinction between "good" and "nice". They're not the same thing, in fact they are often diametrically opposed.

"Good" is your moral compass, your trustworthiness, your loyalty, your spine, your ability to deliver on promises etc. That's a quality which in my experience people really do value long term (although it may not be something which will make you shine in the moment).

"Nice" is very different. Nice is often just a social front which people put on to enable them to get along or to stop themselves being disliked.

I'm always a bit sceptical of people who are overly "nice": very often they fall into one of two categories: either they are weak and want to be liked above all else (that doesn't make them bad, just weak and needy and hard to be around) or they are cynical.

So, if "niceness" isn't rewarded by society, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing.

@Emuplswell my general philosophy is to treat people as you would like to be treated by others. I’d like to be treated kindly so, yes. I think I’m a kind person. I kind of wish I wasn’t though.

I might, but it wouldn't be a compliment.

I can never warm to these people or trust their opinion on anything. They're saying what they think I want to hear. I don't know who they are.

Yes, I'd almost argue you have to be assertive to be kind.

Being a people pleaser is cowardly and leads to poor life outcomes.

I'm also confused by the logic that because kids don't turn up to practice they're not kind kids? How does that work?

Oh yes the self proclaimed “I’m a people pleaser”… I always think, I wonder whether anyone else in life would describe you as such!

There's a surprising number of people who think they're owed career success for being "nice" or "good" rather than being competent at the job. Or whatever it is they want success in.

And people pleasers are insincere, inauthentic people who can't stand not being liked, even by people they don't like themselves.

Yes

I have enjoyed reading posts from those describing themselves as genuinely really good kind people

and then going on to describe others in such terms as “bitch”

In the situations you describe, team games and competitive work environments, then those qualities alone won't be enough, admittedly. Because the thing valued most is the skills to help the team win or to make the employer money. However if you have the skill set needed for the context and you bring those qualities in addition, they will take you further than you'd go without them.
If your nice personality isn't taking you as far as your horrible colleagues, then you're in the wrong job. There will be places that are a better fit where you'll be valued for your skills, and your personality will be a bonus.

I really could not agree more. People are extremely complex and people who don’t see their own bad traits have that as one of their bad traits 😂

I've started being a little less polite as people seem to see it as a weakness. I had it instilled in me as a child to be polite at all times, and so I have been overly nice all my life. I also like being nice to people, but I have noticed people seem to respect you more if you're aloof and bit rude.

I agree and actually - perhaps that cashier has just had something awful happen to them in their personal life that you dont know about- not everything is about us. Wouldnt showing that person a bit of grace be the "kind" thing to do rather than becoming furious about it and vowing that next time you will treat them poorly as some kind of just "punishment"?

Because what you mean by karma is a force that gives good things to "good people" and vice versa, but the concept of good and bad people is rarely so simple. You do seem to have something of a simplistic view of this. You think you're "good" because you're polite to a cashier and the cashier is "bad" because they're a bit abrupt, but these are hardly serious moral issues.

If you're watching people who pissed you off in the hope of "karma" striking them, that's a personal vengeful god. And arguably not the sign of a person at inner peace.

Exactly! Sorry, but I’m eye-rolling so hard at all this binary “everyone is either Hitler or Mother Teresa” thinking. It’s such a reductive and frankly quite naive view of human psychology. And isn’t it strangely coincidental that the people dividing everyone into these categories always just happen to put themselves firmly in the “nice” category? 😂

Humans are complex. Very few people are entirely kind and pure, or entirely evil. Most of us are a mixture of good and bad traits, and we’re capable of behaving brilliantly in some situations and badly in others.

It’s really quite childish to see people as either “good” or “bad”, with absolutely nothing in between.

I find this interesting, but I also find it interesting that they rarely speak of this vengeful god smiting murderers or rapists. It's usually cheaters and people who piss you off at work.

I literally spat my tea out laughing at this. Well played.

The trouble with dividing the world into arseholes and nice people is that everyone puts themselves on the Nice side.

Person A is seen as a bully by Person B, but just sees themselves as 'having boundaries'. Person C is aggressive in one perspective and direct and clear in another perspective. Almost no one thinks of themselves as a bully or an arsehole.

Sounds great- that'll teach em!

I don’t think calling kids not nice, kind, good or trustworthy people

is all that ”nice”