To think in life being a nice, good person rarely counts for much?

"If you are known for being unpleasant, people don't do you favours, include you in things, spend time with you."

So clearly not true. Plenty of nasty people are really popular. Their friends complain about them sometimes, but if they're fun and interesting they will always have people around them.

Yes, which brings us back to people-pleasers running around doing things for people they neither like nor respect, because they’re afraid to say no. Which is neither ‘kind’ nor ‘nice’. It’s fear-driven.

But there’s nothing to stop you being ‘nice’ and assertive.

I dont get this either - why are all these self labelled "nice" people choosing to be friends with nasty, selfish bitches?

Its really strange....

I've come to the same conclusion recently OP. I have been taken of advantage of personally and professionally many times because I'm nice, I mean, it sometimes works in my favour, but usually it tends to be those who are assertive (sometimes aggressively so) who get the best lives.

Well it would be odd for a manager of competitive sport not to eant the best players

And I am the world's worse sport person and have interest in anything physical bit of i was asked to pick players to play way with in competition I wpuld pick the best too

If the competition was pick the nicest, friendliest, best looking, happiest,, best sense of humour i would pick within that

But as a parent I teach do the rigjt thing because it ia the right thing and lead by example not what is popular and they do, other peoples opinions if you do the right thing is not your business

Shocking how many of these nice kind posters have cruella de vile type “friends” and family

Yep, the same for me where friends were concerned; I was the reliable, caring friend, got walked all over, taken for granted, etc. In my 50s I started putting myself first ( thanks menopause!) and when I stopped being the first to message/call/ check in on these "friends" ( you've guessed it!) they didn't bother. One messaged reproachfully "I've not been well you know!" Yes, I was aware, but after doing all the chasing, and having health issues myself, I ran out of empathy. Same with family members who used me, wanted me when they had problems, and weren't seen for dust otherwise.

I still make an effort for friends who are there for me, but don't let people walk all over me any more.

What does your kids not getting selected for a sports team have to do with being good kind etc etc?

Or have you already written off the kids that clearly are better at the sport than your kids @Autumncalm as unkind and bad people ?

It depends on what your reasons and expectations of being nice and good. If you are nice and good simply because that’s your character, you’ll probably be okay. You can still have boundaries and advocate for yourself and others. If you expect some kind of reward or recognition for being nice and being good, you are inviting disappointment and resentment.

It does directly help you though, it builds self respect, which is essential to be happy or successful.

100 percent the case

Let me guess- you just happen to be one of life's "givers" right?

🤭🤣

In a nutshell : People tend to fall into two categories- givers or takers .

No they don’t . I worked with someone like that , everyone fawned over her but when she left she was dropped like a hot stone . I asked one of her cronies if she was staying in touch with this Bitch and her reply was” No too much drama .” This is someone who holidayed with her as well !

Oh I completely agree!

My mum was a huge people pleaser- she was constantly worried about what others thought of her, very anxious, could never say no, spent her entire life worrying about whether other people liked her or not, it was heartbreakingly sad.

I also know that she suppressed a lot of her anger/resentment/real feelings because she could never be truly honest with people about her needs for fear they'd be angry with her and I firmly believe it caused a lot of the physical illnesses she suffered from throughout her life.

The sad thing is- genuine confidence and healthy self esteem is the thing people are most attracted to in friendships, not someone running themselves into the ground trying to "earn" friendship.

Some people are very charming and manipulative and are good at manipulating others into saying things and doing their dirty work for them . People tend to side with them out of fear of being targeted next . They are good at ingratiating themselves with people who have influence who think they are wonderful and can talk their way out of trouble and blame others . It’s so frustrating dealing with these people because people in positions of authority , power and influence think they are great .

I think you’re both wrong & right at the same time. Sometimes nasty people get away with it, because they intimidate others or are prized for their talents, but not always. Good people will see through them & not like them for it.

Nice people won’t have much time for unpleasant people.

Or a completely healthy personality.

It takes substantially more than those traits + selfishness to meet the diagnostic criteria of a personality disorder.

@whistlesandbellsi agree with this 💯.

I am discovering how often people discourage you from asserting boundaries though to keep the peace (and then nudge into the coward category if I stick to my original summary).