To think in life being a nice, good person rarely counts for much?

To be honest, if you've lived the first part of your life thinking you are superior to many people, watching their lives for "karma" and getting angry that you don't see any, and thus decide to spend the next part of your life being a "bitch"... I'm not surprised people have never responded well to you.

Honestly I think people do respond well to authenticity even when that shows flaws, as true authenticity will. A simpering people pleaser who will say anything they think you want to hear, a self-styled "good" person who turns nasty when they don't get what they think is due to them (or what they think is due to others), or who can't see any middle ground between being a performative, self righteous martyr and being a "bitch"... these are inauthentic, insincere people.

I'm not sure I follow this. Personally, I couldn't live with myself if I didn't think I was a good person..That's why I don't hurt people. I don't care who likes me or agrees with me.

I have an unshakeable dislike for people who aren't 'good" and I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I thought being good wasn't important. It's the entire premise of my life, to be good, and to raise good children, to the best of my ability. No idea why I am this way but I like to think or hope that most people feel this way..

It's not a case of being a "complete bitch", just not being so available to others.

So, just normal healthy boundaries then? Kind people can have them too.

There are people in this thread who have stated they are going to "be bitches" as nice people get walked over so curious what being a "bitch" entails

I couldn't be bothered with that; in my case I'm just more detached than I was before, and don't feel the need to get involved in every situation where people want something from me.

It's not a case of being a "complete bitch", just not being so available to others. That might seem mean to them, when they've been used to having someone to dump on when they need it, then ignoring me the rest of the time, but as I've got older I've lost the capacity for doing too much for others and getting nothing back.

Now I just think "you reap what you sow".

I'd like to ask all the people on this thread who insist they are naturally nice and kind and have said they are going to/now act like complete "bitches" because theyve been shat on in the past.

How is that working out for you?

I am genuinely curious - what kind of nasty/bitchy behaviour do you now engage in that you wouldnt before, and how has it benefitted you?

I'm fascinated by the idea that the answer to being treated badly is to deliberately become someone you presumably wouldn't have liked very much before so it would be interesting to see how its actually helped you?

In fact, now this has made me wonder- perhaps all the popular nasty "bitches" you all talk about are simply nice and kind people pleasers that got nowhere in life and so decided to become bitches to improve their situations? perhaps we should admire them for that

No I’m a woman

But why can't you be nice AND assertive

Are you a man?

It teaches kids that the sports team is a meritocracy, where the merit is being able to play well.

Think of it this way, would you rather be operated on by a surgeon who is a bit of an arsehole, but the best surgeon, or by the really nice person who is kind to everyone he meets but isn't that good at surgery?

It isn't that being nice doesn't get you anywhere, it's more than in certain circumstances, being nice isn't actually the most important quality for completing the task in hand.

This isn't to say bad behaviour should be indulged or ignored simply because the individual is a brilliant footballer, and if it isn't being addressed at all then that's an issue. Certainly thinking he's too good to turn up to training needs to be knocked on the head. But at the end of the day, if the goal is to win games, you are going to choose the players who will help you achieve that goal, just as if the goal is to have a successful heart transplant, you are going to choose the surgeon with the best record.

Being nice is a good thing to be. Bullies aren't always terribly happy people. But being nice is never going to fast track you into a team or job if you aren't the most capable. Because the end goal is to win the game or save the patient.

This is a terrible attitude!

I have found the opposite in life, personally, and I’m excelling in my profession (which can be quite aggressive and competitive) - having gone self-employed - because of my reputation as being a decent, honest and kind person. I also seem to have amazingly honest and decent friends. Family are a bit of a mixture but mainly good too! I also rarely have any hostile interactions generally. I find if you are positive and friendly you get the same back. Maybe I’ve just been lucky?
(aware I probably sound unbearably smug!)

@TipsyMoose can you recall what the phenomena was called?

In my experience as a parent of young adults, those that were the unpleasant 'popular ' mean girl or football star types have not really moved on from that and stayed in our small town. The less popular kids like mine branch out in college, became resilient and blossomed a bit later. I hope for the most part genuinely unpleasant people don't thrive but there are exceptions obviously.

Depends on the individual circumstances. Sometimes difficult people who are also very talented get away with a lot because they’re indispensable.

I can feel peaceful because I have not permitted those who don’t share my values to change me

I like this.

It means I can live with myself and be proud of my actions.

I agree with that, yes.

You’re correct. Gets you nowhere. If I had girls I’d be teaching them to be selfish bitches.

Even if the bully starts to have a detrimental effect on team performance and morale?

You are correct of course and it isn’t fair. I’m 63 now but I remember with clarity realising when I was 28 that life wasn’t fair, it was a relief in a way.
I’ve tried to fight back and meet nastiness with nastiness but it always results in me feeling bad about myself. These days I do me, I am kind to people and if they return my kindness with unpleasantness where I can, I avoid them. That’s my reason for being myself, being kind and caring. At night when I go to sleep I can feel peaceful because I have not permitted those who don’t share my values to change me. That’s worth a lot to me.

They skewered this once on Sabrina the Teenage Witch 😀 Sabrina turned Libby, the queen bee, into a nerd, but Libby stayed just as bullying and superior as she'd been as the most popular girl in school. When Sabrina turned her back, she carried on happily as a nerd, just a bullying, superior and snobby one. Turned out she didn't care what clique she was in; as long as she could exclude and look down on people, she was happy!

Late in life I now really resonate with the expression “no good deed goes unpunished”.