School want to trial a part time timetable after just 2 weeks at the school - WWYD?

Sorry you're having these issues. My son is diagnosed AuDHD, not so much ODD but he will kick back if pushed into something he disagrees with.

We approached the school half way into term 1 of year 7 to request flexischooling. This is different to part-time timetable as it is allowed to be a long term solution, whereas PT timetable has to be temporary. School agreed to our son spending one day a week at home and 4 in school (though could be spread across the week, say mornings in school, last lessons at home). It worked for us because one of us is at home all day, so we were there to be with DS - also he had a planned activity provided by a registered provider, which gave structure to the day and feedback for school.

DS has now gone into year 10 and is for the first time full time. He felt really to go full time and is keen to not miss any GCSE content. The reduced time in school really helped him cope with the days he was in school, it meant he had more resilience and energy when he was in school. He has been doing well academically, but he is naturally bright, which may be one of the reasons school agreed to it, as the time at home has not detracted from his academic achievement (in fact I argue it strengthened it).

I appreciate flexischooling is different to PT timetable but just wanted to share my experience of DS not being in school full time at the start of secondary. For us, it has allowed DS to remain in mainstream education, and gradually build up his confidence and trust in the school and teachers to enable him to now be there full time. Also, by not overwhelming him at school, the teachers have been able to see his positive characteristics and have become fond of him and now advocate for him, whereas had be been full time for the past 3 years I think they may have seen more of his struggles and not been able to build those positive relationships.

I would trial it. But make it clear to your son that once he is home (had lunch) he is doing school work till 3. And set up desk/table area so he is still productive and not seeing home as being the fun alternative.

The other 29 children in the classroom matter just as much as the one who can’t cope there.
It’s hardly ableist to say so.
Protecting disabilities shouldn’t present as giving opportunities to the disabled child which remove opportunities from his classmates.
They ALL matter. Every one of them.

Just like ASD and other neurodivergent conditions, not everyone with ADHD is the same.
This is well within the boundaries of what encompasses ADHD.
Our DS was always said to have "something else" but ADHD meds and ADHD strategies have turned him around.

When are we going to stop demonising kids for their behaviour and actually start reading what it means? What's behind it?

He is clearly showing he is strugglung with a full day. But instead of supporting him you want that to continue. That will lead to more bad behaviour and then probably isolation or suspension. That would be a worse situation for you.

Why do we still stick to this old fashioned notion that our kids are or could manipulate us, rather than meeting them where they are?

Don't be the reason he needs therapy in his 40s!

Ahh okay, so all the other 29 “neurotypical”, perfectly happy children, with wonderful family backgrounds and emotional regulation in YEAR 7 on the first week, don’t really matter
….. cos, you know, they ain’t disabled like this kid? ….. We have really, really fucked up as a society with the use of the word disabled. This boy clearly has “needs” but to use the term disabled? ….. society has fucked up there in my opinion.

Riiiiiigghhhhhtttt.

Strange. My friend has two young adult children with ADHD who are medicated, but otherwise fine. Very high achieving, social, talented kids.
I’d wonder if there’s something else going on with op’s ds. Swearing at teachers and storming out of lessons certainly suggests so.

School are trying to support your son so that he doesn’t go down the exclusion, exclusion, permanent exclusion route.

You have said he’s violent towards you, aggressive to others and walks out of lesson so is internally truanting.

Your concern about him missing lessons is valid, but it sounds like he’s doing that anyway.

EHCP or not, if he starts endangering others by refusing to follow instructions, being aggressive and truanting he will start racking up exclusions and eventually a permanent exclusion.

The school are not at fault here for trying to protect everyone involved - he is clearly in the wrong setting. My advice would be you contact the local authority and organise an emergency review because changing his placement is necessary, or an alternative provision in the PM, like home tutor or PRU dual placement if full time SEMH is not an option.

Good luck!

I 100% agree that proper provision should be made for children with disabilities, but we do have to think of the other kids too. If you have a class with, say, three children who have severe learning or behavioural difficulties, the time spent dealing with those children is time lost to the others.
In many schools, the policy is to evacuate the classroom if one of the children with behavioural difficulties kicks off. So while that child has punched the teacher and is chucking desks around the room, the other children are taken to another space in school to continue with their disrupted lesson.
Time wasted, high stress levels, frightened children.
Unfortunately, this sort of situation is not uncommon.
I don’t pretend to know what the answer is, and it must be down to more funding, but inclusion isn’t always the answer.

Of course he is, but mainstream school might not be the place for him. I’m all for inclusion - I worked with SEND children for thirty years - but it can’t be at the expense of the other children’s learning.

CAMHS won’t diagnose PDA and won’t recognise it / support it. For PDA it is part of an autism diagnosis. If there is an autism diagnosis. Whilst you can’t get a stand alone PDA diagnosis you can have an assessment of their autism profile and if they meet the criteria the diagnosis would be autism with a demand avoidant profile.

The way to deal with PDA is the complete opposite of any other methods. If there is any thought that PDA could be at play it would be extremely beneficial to implement the PDA methods at home and school. If these have an impact you don’t need a diagnosis to follow them.

Support in school even if that means that for afternoons or when they aren’t managing in a specific lesson they have an option of their 1-1 taking them to work elsewhere or to do something different altogether but remaining in school is preferable to a part time timetable and leaving school completely for part of the day.

As LAs have been shown time and again, lack of funding, resources or staffing isn’t a lawful reason for failure to provide SEP detailed, specified and quantified in F. That applies regardless of placement. The LA is ultimately responsible for the provision as per section 42 of the Children and Families Act 2014 and this duty is absolute. When faced with enforcement action, provision can and is provided.

The school is unlawfully, informally excluding DS. You don’t have to accept it. DS can attend full-time unless they are formally suspending him. Don’t worry if they do suspend. A formal suspension rather than an unlawful informal exclusion it will a) provide you with evidence of unmet needs, b) force the school to follow due process, c) limit the number of days the school can suspend for, d) allow you to challenge any suspension, and e) ensure he receives alternative provision once he has reached that threshold.

You also need a review of DS’s EHCP.

The LA looked at specialist placements when his EHCP was being done and basically said they didn't think his needs were severe enough for a specialist school. Their view was he'd manage in mainstream with the EHCP and a 1:1.

Of course they did! Stop believing everything the LA tells you.

His EHCP was only actually finalised at the end of July

You still have the right of appeal. Appeal ASAP.

Have you tried keeping a detailed diary to help you stop triggers and to also help you see what works and what doesn’t.

Some people find non-violent resistance courses helpful. You might do.

I dont disagree but there are not enough specialist placements
To meet everyones needs.

True, and once those other parents create a fuss or complain, the school will have to act and OPs son is more likely to be excluded - either internally or permanently. As more children are integrated into mainstream school, its a battle for all parents, because while we want to be understanding and empathic, you also want your child to get an education without constant interruptions or being put at risk of harm.

The school has to keep him safe and also consider the impact on other children and their learning. But it sounds as if you are going to need more support at home as well in order to keep yourself safe, never mind any siblings. Does the school have, or can they refer you to, family support?

Go along with the part time timetable for now. Ask for a date to review, and make sure that meeting doesn’t slide. As pp said, if the school can’t meet need then all this is evidence for him to have different support and that can’t be a bad thing.

I would also be tempted to keep some sort of diary about what happens at home. The bigger the picture you can paint, hopefully the more appropriate support you can get for the whole family as well as your son.

They get extra funding but no one wants to do the job as an 1-2-1 for a complex need child. You can’t magic staff with funding. Often the TA staff agree to rotate to make it as bearable as possible. If they do manage to recruit they often don’t stay long.Inclusion doesn’t work on so many levels - specialist placement, where staff and pupils are properly supported is the best solution.

I would revisit the special school angle again, in light of these past 2 weeks. He clearlyisn't coping with school and although you say its not just behaviour in school its everywhere, the stress and unhappiness that he probably feels in school and knowing that he has to go to school, might make his behaviour worst even when he isn't in school (if that makes sense). PP are right to say that your son is entitled to a full-time education, but in reality he isn't getting that and perhaps in this environment, he isn't able capable of getting one. He might be in the school building full-time, but he isn't learning all of that time, he's crashing out, refusing to go to lessons, walking out of classrooms. Maybe a part-time timetable would be better if that time is actually spent learning. It sounds really tough OP, I hope he finds a suitable setting soom.

Capa First Response | Together for safer families - Capa First Response https://share.google/39pfx8Rmz01fpFGWS

Helping your PDAer return to school - PDA Society https://share.google/zbsCIcMDE01sTXioP

I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

It’s a shame he’s not in a specialist setting but I have noticed not many settings cater for kids like your son.
There are either PRUs - typically for bad behaviour.
Or alternative provision - typically for those with more obvious ‘special needs’ and not as ‘mainstream’. - so a lot of more emotional mature kids can really struggle when being around the ‘special needs kids’.

I have seen many PT timetables and they’ve worked brilliantly!
That’s not to say it will work for your son but it’s definitely worth a try.

Right now school is a negative place and the day is just too long for him. It just creates a vicious cycle.

Going in fir shorter time will change his mindset and hopefully he’ll start enjoying it.
I’ve seen kids who then make friends or want to join in an afternoon activity and they eventually have all got to FT.

Obviously it puts a lot of strain on you as a parent and not being able to work - how are you going to cope with that?

You need to call an emergency EHCP review and think about a specialist setting. Contact your local Sendias. It is tough changing schools but you need the right setting. ps look at PDA as opposed to ODD as it usually is more accurate.

@Stressedoutmummyof3 do they give you paperwork each time? This is an informal exclusion. They must provide the paperwork if they're excluding.

I know it's horrible to have to insist.

Right, after your update he needs better meds, no option not to take them, and you need to start making him take responsibility for his behaviour. As I've said above, you need ADHD Dude. Urgently.
No meds, no screen time.

Hi @PinkPandaas I think you need to appeal the EHCP for a specialist placement. Appeals of that kind are taking a year or more anyway, so if when the time comes you don't need it, then it's not really an issue, but the other way round could be. You already have lots of evidence the school can't cope.

Finalising in July will have limited what the school could do re enhanced transition and preparation.

Regarding the violence, soeak to the school safeguarding lead asap and see what they can suggest or refer you to.

The charity Capa First Response is good and you can refer yourself. My school also had two local charities who would come in and work with kids and a project running with social services (bit we were in the wrong postcode).

My daughter's aggressive behaviour reduced a lot as we understood her needs better and school improved.

CAMHS can't officially put 'PDA' on anything as it's not in the DSM, but if you visit the PDA website there are lots of good resources.