AIBU to think school skirt bans undermine choice rather than equality?

If there is acceptance of this inequality then can one assume that trousers means trousers and not spray on 'trousers' leaving little to the imagination? In the school where I worked 20+ years ago there was an insistance that boys wore school trousers, not chinos or the then popular cargo-pants but the 'rule' didn't apply to the girls, apparently the feminists who ran the school thought this would be 'unfair' to the girls!

Nope.... you've lost me

The existence of school.uniforms at all undermines choice!

I understand why schools may have trousers only, whilst I think there should be a choice. The 'does my bum look big in this' may be a joke from a comedy show, but causes very real issues for teenage girls and young women with trousers (and older ones too).

Trousers!
Dungaree vegan !

Oh wait - you want girls to be allowed to wear dresses not skirts?

I do agree with that and would be in favour of skirts being replaced with dresses (as this would solve my issue of them being rolled up too far).

But almost all the things you’ve just implied are bad about trousers are bad about skirts too.

(Also why no VPL with dresses? I have more VPL with dresses as it’s VPL plus the tights under the dress that show through).

Most of them are not wearing coats - the other sign I’m getting old is tutting at them all in the wind and rain and snow with no coat on.

They mostly have handbags, and the uniform is jumpers not blazers, so knickers are on show under rolled up skirts.

Also I am keeping my eyes on the children when I’m driving who are prone to step into the road/hustle and bustle and get pushed into the road. I don’t approve of what they’re wearing but I don’t want to run them over so need to keep an eye on what they’re doing.

I’m a straight, childless woman in my 30s. I don’t want to see children’s underwear. I’m not going out at 3pm with my binoculars to upskirt teenage girls. You cannot miss how obviously some of this underwear is on show. It’s better in winter as at least then it’s just gussets of tights I can see.

The red light district was light hearted hyperbole for somewhere where one would expect to see a lot of underwear. Maybe a more appropriate analogy would have been a Victoria’s Secret runway.

I don’t have any issue with an adult having their underwear on display (well actually I do, I don’t want to see that either but at least they’re old enough to think through and make those decisions in an informed way). Children should be guided and sheltered until they can make those decisions - because let’s be honest, these girls aren’t rolling their skirts up in a vacuum, are they? That decision is being influenced by societal pressures and teen culture and potentially the male gaze and patriarchy.

Also see this story where parents bought the skirt required from the approved supplier and were still told the skirt was too short.

Even though they weren't adjusting it and the example on the school website was the same length.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/denton-community-academy-school-uniform-37621209?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

This story is worse than the one about the school trousers tbh.

Girls are being affected by these uniform issues far more than boys.

It does strike me that it's indirect sexism on the part of the school in Denton.

I'm all in favour of banning skirts at school. That's more like equality to me!

Teachers must spend valuable time policing the possible visibility of underwear and crotches on girls when they have so much more productive things to do, and so do the girls!

Once the skirts are gone, the heat is off for conflict, measuring tapes, visible crotches and underwear, competitiveness to see who can make the shortest skirt and so on. Teenagers will rebel, banning skirts at school will give them one less thing to rebel about and focus on why they are actually at school!

Anyway someone above mentioned banning skirts so the boys won't be leering and gawking at what they might see in a short rolled up skirt wearing girl, I think it's more to stop the utter brashness and competitive nature of girls wanting to impress the boys!

The UK.

Academy trust in the Northwest

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/schoolgirls-barred-lessons-academy-doubles-34562944

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/oldham-school-skirt-ban-pupils-34565513

Multiple schools affected.

I think it’s about time we should get rid of uniform all together. It seems to cause far more problems than it solves. I don’t think it’s fit for purpose and it looks dreadful.
I also don’t think removing the option of skirts for 6 hours a day, 190 odd days a year is removing women’s rights.
Uniforms are restrictive, my sons would rather wear soft waisted shorts for secondary school. They find them more comfortable and they fit better, they’d also prefer not to wear a shirt and tie but it’s not the uniform so they can’t.

The trousers decision is the right decision. Majority of teenage girls don't wear skirts properly.. I'm not talking a bit rolled up, but literally their arse cheeks are sticking out. It's not a good look on a child and they haven't yet got the maturity to wear the skirts properly or even just a little longer (not all but most it seems).

The only woman wearing what may be a skirt in that photo is not a nurse on her feet all day, she's also wearing ballet flats and not in "uniform". Administrator.

If you want to wear skirts and dresses - why are you refusing to allow the boys to do so also ?

everyone or no one

and yes - if the schools get fed up of inappropriate clothing I can see why banning altogether is easiest. Clothing is necessary. Skirts are not.

I think they should be allowed to wear skirts, it's an entirely gender appropriate type of clothing. I don't wear trousers (well, except for hiking trousers when actually hiking or climbing mountains) nor jeans of any description. Not all women/girls wear trousers. It seems odd to force girls to wear trousers. Of course, skirts should be appropriate.

Schools need to just enforce trousers as the skirts are so short now that the blazers have more chance of covering their bums than the actual scrap of material alleged to be a skirt. I was driving along one day and actually thought the girl only had knickers and a blazer on 🙄 it's undignified and cheap.

It’s just factual that they are for a lot of jobs. Many schools don’t allow dresses as uniform anyway

Girls are in general less active/sporty at all ages. The real drop comes when they move to secondary school. I suspect that's more to do with the older girls having virtually stopped being active in the playground therefore not role modelling active behaviours. Keeping girls active is a huge issue and I don't think skirts are the main issue.
Interestingly, Women in Sport advocates students (girls really) wearing PE kit all day on PE/Games days to eliminate issues around using changing rooms etc. Maybe schools should just change to a more activity based uniform for all.

i think you might be in the minority. Most women wear trousers regularly. As others have said, in schools where they have no uniform, or on non-uniform days, girls tend to choose jeans, joggers or leggings over dresses/skirts.

Yep. I think it's harder to make a uniform style trouser that is comfortable for all shapes of girls. Perhaps it's the same for boys, I don't know. What I do know is that I find pretty much any tailored trouser or jeans uncomfortable. The only trousers I wear are joggers or leggings. I would hate to have the choice to wear a skirt taken away from me.

Another issue that has been discussed recently in a lot of schools, how much younger girls stop running around type playing at break and lunchtimes. Boys often play games like tag or football at break/lunch for a couple of years later than girls have stopped active playing. Skirts and awareness of not showing their underwear while playing has been one of the reasons given for this change. Many schools are trying to get girls to stay active, and clothing concerns has been part of that discussion.

That might not have anything to do with your schools decision, but it adds to the chatter about how the clothes we put girls in limits them.

If you are having a school uniform then by definition @BadBadCat- there is no choice in what you wear.

there are whole sections of the female adult population who never wear skirts, just a look on style and beauty section threads will bring up lots, women who never wear skirts or dresses trying to work out what to wear to a wedding or black tie event (the answer is always “fancy jumpsuit or bright coloured trouser suit”).

One of the issues this year is the limits on how many branded items schools can insist on for uniform and pressure to make uniforms cheaper. If a school can’t have a set branded skirt, then rather than have long detailed instructions about exactly what length and shape of skirt, saying “black or charcoal grey straight leg school trousers” is much easier for everyone.