AIBU to think school skirt bans undermine choice rather than equality?

I don’t get any of the fuss around having to wear trousers. At my daughter’s school 99% of the girls wear trousers as they made the skirt very long and very ugly. I’ve only ever seen about 3 girls in it and she’s in year 10.

Brands - sure, but same with bags, shoes, PE trainers, it will always be something. Plenty available with no branding at all.
Lots of schools didn't have blazers in the 90s and we coped fine keeping those things in bags. My DS is constantly losing the stuff he stores in those blazer pockets. Plus it's a pain to get a proper warm and waterproof coat over the top of them and I'd rather that be the warm layer. They are a good layer on a dry day in autumn and spring I guess. But so are jumpers.

Plenty of countries don't have uniforms as standard and if it's not one thing it's another. Most 6th forms don't have them here. I just think comfort is better for learning than being smart and conforming to sometimes ridiculous rules. The smart tailored thing isn't great for lots of kids.

Good question. I don't live in the UK and I have literally never seen a girl in a uniform skirt as short as those frequently mentioned on MN. Why do girls in the UK feel the need to show their knickers when girls elsewhere don't?

The girls wear their skirts so short their bum cheeks are hanging out.

Some parents aren’t even trying to stop it. Today Dilly from sort your life out posted a picture of her TWELVE year old in an outrageously short school skirt.

Banning skirts is a consequence of this.

We talk about the choice for girls to wear skirts or trousers. There is no choice for boys to wear shorts rather than trousers. Many boys (including my youngest son who only wore shorts at primary school) would love to have a choice.

i don’t blame schools for changing uniforms to be trousers only. It should mean that less time is spent dealing with uniform issues.

I’m glad that I’m a mum of three boys as I don’t have the added extra of skirt lengths to deal with.

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Do you not think schools already do this? Do you think that a girl should be allowed to choose to wear clothing that shows their arse cheeks if they want to? Let’s be honest here, if a girl is wearing such an item, she knows what she’s doing.

Jeans - too many issues around which brand they are wearing and would promote bullying.
Blazers - very useful for keeping their timetables and stationary in the pockets. Also warm layer in winter.

OP, with respect, I don’t think you’ve been into a secondary school recently…. Regardless of rules, and teachers and parents telling them, girls roll their skirts up and they walk round with the bottom of their knickers on show with their buttocks coming out the bottom. They won’t stop doing this so the result is a ban on skirts. This is a safety issue - they are sitting straight onto chairs rather than on the material of their skirts.

Girls have always been taking chances with skirts, hormones raging nothing new.

however what is new is safeguarding and a schools job to care for look out for their best interests. Skirts are often shocking in length and no those little shorts are not often worn or they’re removed at school. A few years ago only when they reached yr8-9 they would start to roll, now it’s yr7 on day 1.

schools have a duty to safeguard girls, not so much from boys at school as they’re still mainly interested in football. More to and from school, bus stops etc. Also there is a direct link from skirt height to general behaviour in class.

Parents just get skirts shortened and the game goes on. It is tough trying to enforce and often stance is “up to you”.

If anything happens first point of blame is schools so they’re being proactive. Loss of skirts to trousers? Schools are not to blame.

I don't personally think trousers take away femininity or that it makes girls look or feel like men. It's a nonsense argument and takes away from some of the real issues about policing girls/women's clothing and why this particular stance is not ideal for lots of girls.

I do get that girls have been rolling their skirts up for decades, and it is often bordering on inappropriate, and I can see why policing the length gets tiresome. I'd love to say that girls can express themselves as they want but I would ask them honestly why they do it (as a girl who used to do it too, it was a questionable choice).

I do think that having such draconian rules for uniform is a waste of time and energy, at a point where some children have so many absences because of how they feel at school perhaps comfort and self expression would help. It's become stricter than it was 30 years ago and it's about control. Very few work places have strict dress codes these days, and those that do you would choose to join and know about the uniform when you apply. You can be a senior civil servant and wear what you like the majority of the time including any colour of hair you want ( and same is true in many professional jobs in public and private sector).

Whilst I get some of pros of a uniform, this could be achieved more cheaply and comfortably if you allowed plain joggers or dark jeans and just had a school coloured sweater, no logos or labels. Blazers are daft and tailored trousers and shirts are awful for girls (and boys) who are not a standard size. Skirts are at least a bit more forgiving on the hips and I can see why many would want to retain the choice. I bet nobody would be claiming that girls would feel like boys in a pair of jeans.

Yanbu,
Removing choice because some girls wear skirts too slutty is limiting the freedom of girls because female humans can’t be trusted to behave in such a way that boys can’t control themselves and will leer, upskirt or even assault them. Rules like that are what make girls and women ashamed of their bodies and boys and men think a girl/woman in a skirt is sexually available.

and why can’t boys be allowed to wear skirts? No issue with that in Scotland.

School uniforms should have some choices.

Lacy thongs and shorts are different - but I refuse to accept that these shorts for example are anything but knickers (like the actual knickers linked too):

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boudaner-Scrunch-Workout-Spandex-Lifting/dp/B0D5CBQB57?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=AEV3LYX9SSGMS

stripeandstare.com/products/hipster-knicker-midnight-neon-pink?variant=40718670987324&glCountry=GB&glCurrency=GBP&currency=GBP&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Europe_UK_Pmax_KnickersThongs&utm_content=&utm_term=&gclsrc=aw.ds&&tw_source=google&tw_adid=&tw_campaign=23962629300&tw_kwdid=&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=23972286376&gbraid=0AAAAAoVrHUhVr-3YURpnWmqA2fNlGxQio&gclid=Cj0KCQjw2OnUBhC2ARIsACKyfaHFsCrIWFVH_PCgHpJC0PtSy7KMK5_kwwJNBIi_AMkVev_spvqAZAgaAv4QEALw_wcB

I don't have a problem with skirts being banned in schools especially if teachers don't have to spend time policing skirt lengths. My DD left school 5 years ago and always wore trousers. I don't see trousers as a "male" choice. I'm female and can't remember the last time I wore a skirt or dress. I tend to wear shorts in hot weather.

There's been some dispute on the thread about nurses uniform though. I've spent a huge amount of time in hospital over the last year and can confirm nurses can and do wear dresses. Far more female nurses wore dresses than trousers on the ward I was on.

Not really. I think it makes a difference. Like I said my teenage DD wears shorts under hers and long socks or tights. Hardly lacy thongs!

I know this doesn't necessarily answer your question, but I was a supply teacher and often had conversations with girls about skirts, never in a "get that rolled down" way - I usually had much bigger issues than that so let it go. One girl had hers excessively short, like literally didn't quite cover her bum short. I asked how long it was if she didn't roll it, so she rolled it down, and it was still ridiculously short (although actually covering the bear minimum this time). She thought it was horrific. I just thought that perception is a really interesting thing.

On occasion, in schools where girls could wear trousers but very very few did, I'd ask why they didn't really wear trousers. One was my old school and I'd say it was close to 50/50 when I was there, now it's a tiny amount who wear trousers. Just after I left, they introduced blazers. The blazers was the reason - they thought blazers and trousers made them look like boys. A lot happily wore jeans etc outside of school, so it wasn't a general objection to trousers.

A local school banned skirts last year. They had a LOT of issues with upskirting and posting videos and photos on social media. I can see why they have changed their uniform policy.

When a school has girls who refuse to understand that wearing their skirts so short that their thong and arse cheeks are on display isn’t empowering, then they have every right to enforce a trousers only rule.

This isn’t a boy problem, this is a girl problem. It’s not appropriate to be walking around with your arse on show. I don’t understand how this has become ‘fashionable’ or why girls want to sexualise themselves in this way. Driving past our local secondary schools at the end of the school day is awful. Yes women and girls should wear what they want, but walking down the street half naked isn’t a good idea.

A school banning skirts is probably fed up of the teachers wasting time on asking girls to dress appropriately.

But telling everyone they have to wear trousers, regardless of gender, isn't?

This was my first thought. Oh how the tables have turned.

Skirts, trousers and shorts should all be an option for school uniform in my opinion. Yes skirts and shorts aren’t appropriate in some work places but in other work places they are, school isn’t work so it’s swings and roundabouts. Appropriate length should be enforced sensibly, a skirt being a cm or two shorter than it should be shouldn’t be a huge issue, but by all means deal with those with their underwear nearly on show or wearing short shorts. Maybe just make the persistent offenders wear trousers rather than a blanket ban for all.

Trousers are an easy, sensible solution to the multiple issues that school skirts present. It's not about making the girls more like boys (weird notion), it's about practicality.

I think its to stop girls wearing skirts just past their knicker line

What about boys being pushed into trousers if they would rather not?

So do you think all pupils should be allowed to wear skirts?