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to leave ten year old twins in a cafe while I swim?

929 replies

justkeepswimminginalake · 03/09/2026 20:45

I’m a single parent to ten year old twins and I was hoping to start open water swimming again. There’s a swimming lake near me which has an onsite cafe and I was thinking about leaving the boys in the cafe by themselves while I swim. We’ve been to the cafe a few times and it’s fairly chilled, mostly swimmers (and their friends/families), young families and old people. It’s also next door to the reception area for the swimming lakes so if they feel uncomfortable there’s somewhere else they can go.

Would I be unreasonable to order them breakfast and a drink and leave them there for half an hour while I swim. They’re generally pretty sensible and I’d pack Yotos with headphones, and some games and books for them to entertain themselves. There’s no one else who can take them.

OP posts:
Goinggreymammy · 05/09/2026 09:05

justkeepswimminginalake · 04/09/2026 08:38

Yes the primary justification is doing something I wanted to do. I don’t see a problem with that. I don’t think I am prioritising my needs over my children’s. They don’t have any unmet needs in this situation, and their needs would always come above mine. What I am doing is prioritising me, thought the thought came about when my son asked if he could go to the cafe, so they’re getting something positive from this too. I don’t see how my kids eating and drinking in a place they like while I spend half an hour (and less as winter comes around and with the forecasting the lake might freeze because it’s small and shallow) doing something I love is a bad thing.

I do everything for the boys. Pretty much all my time and money is spent on them. I’m a single parent with a limited support network so it is all on me. When one of them was was badly bullied a couple of ago I took him out of school used a significant amount of unpaid leave to help him heal and transition to home education, which has been another significant stress and time investment because now all of their education and socialisation is also down to just me. I say this with no resentment. It’s worth it and I’d do it all again and more for them because they deserve it. But it also means that I feel no guilt at all at the thought of putting myself first for half an hour a week, especially when putting myself first means them spending time in a cafe they enjoy. And I also think it’s useful for them to see me as a person who has a life outside of their wants and needs and doing something for myself. Not claiming that’s my primary motivation, but I think it would be good for them nonetheless.

Why don't you get a sitter? Yes you should meet your needs and have hobbies but if you have absolutely no support network then pay someone to mind your children.

Goinggreymammy · 05/09/2026 09:00

justkeepswimminginalake · 04/09/2026 07:56

Wow a lot of responses, so here’s some answers to the most common points. Their birthday is in February so pretty much in the middle of the academic year. In terms of what independence they have, they walk down the road to friends, to the park, to our local sweet shop in town which involves crossing our minor road and using a zebra crossing, and if we need a few bits from a shop on our way home I often pull up and one of them goes into to the shop on his own. I’ll leave them at home to nip out to the shop, if I walk maybe 20-30 minutes. I see them going into town and buying sweets as more risky than sitting in a cafe. They haven’t used public transport alone and their independence other than the park seems to mostly be walking to places rather than staying in places. I need to start working on public transport because one wants to try secondary school next year and I think his brother will follow so I need to get them both confident on the bus together and separately.

I can’t go while they’re at school because they don’t go to school. They’re home educated while I work from home. Even if they were in school, I can’t take 90 minutes from my work day to go swimming. It’s just me and the boys and there’s no family nearby who can watch them while I swim. We have local friends I would happily call on in an emergency but a weekly standing childcare arrangement in the evening or at the weekend for 90 minutes at a time, which probably wouldn’t need to be reciprocated feels like piss taking to me. I’m not convinced there are many childminders who would want those times either and calling on a local teen I don’t know feels riskier than them being on their own. As for going for a swim while they’re in a class, it’s 20 minutes away from the nearest town where there’s anything happening and they’re quite busy with activities already and one of them in particular would really resist the idea.

They are generally sensible boys, and while of course they have their moments with silliness and winding each other up, I have no doubts about their ability to sit at a table for half an hour while I swim and if I did then I wouldn’t have thought of it. There was no expectation that the cafe would be childcare because at ten years old, they don’t need looking after for such a short period. This plan only just occurred to me today when one of them asked to go to the cafe, so I hadn’t considered other options which have come up such as leaving them at home, or getting an Apple Watch so I could see calls and texts coming in from them.

IAs for if they can swim with me, I double checked the lake’s rules because I had in my head they were too young and they can’t swim until 11. One of them would call the police on me himself if I suggested getting into a lake in February, the other might be up for joining me but they feel safer together to me and all the times we’ve been to the cafe by the lake, neither have been interested in swimming. That might be because they prefer to go paddle boarding though.

I could drown, or they could choke but those risks seem tiny. They’re old enough to go to the kitchen and grab snacks without me knowing, and I could drown in the bath. We could all get injured in a car accident on the way over. I just don’t consider those risks high enough to outweigh the benefits of them having more independence and me getting to swim.

I still haven’t decided what to do. I was pretty shocked by the initial blanket negativity and posters saying I should be arrested. Even though I thought it would be a discussion I didn’t expect the strength of feeling about it. I was thinking fifteen minutes after I posted that it was a totally terrible idea, but now the thread is more mixed, I’m considering it more again. I think my plan is to go to the cafe with the boys, give them some money and let them order and sit alone in the cafe while I’m outside (in the cafe outdoor seating out of view) to test run and see how it works when I’m out of sight, but also there. Then take it from there. I feel confident they’ll be fine because they have the carrot of breakfast out and cake every week if we do go ahead. I think it will be good for them to have that extra independence, and also to see me doing something I want to do and they have to sit and wait while I do will be good for them as well. I can’t see how it would be a problem for the cafe if it became a regular thing either. They’d be two extra regular customers who would be as much bother as any other customer.

I think that’s most points answered.

It's not that they wouldn't be able to order food or wait in a cafe. It's that if there is some sort of unexpected emergency (for either of you, im not going to speculate what type, that is the nature of unexpected emergencies) there is nobody immediately available to contact and nobody to take them. You would be off swimming, you are talking about your phone and an Apple watch, but depending on using technology in a lake sounds unreliable... how do yiu answer your phone while swimming? So they could potentially be left there, and then yes,the staff would have to supervise.

I allowed my DS to go to local shop, play in park etc alone at 10. BUT I was at home and available if anyone needed to contact me.
Thats the difference between you going to the skate rink aged 10 - im guessing it was that you were being given independence with friends, not that you were being left so your carers could go off and be independent.

Forgotthebins · 05/09/2026 08:59

If they’re generally well behaved I don’t see the problem. Could you get a smartwatch of some kind so they can call you in the water if there is a problem?

justkeepswimminginalake · 05/09/2026 08:59

JustSaying10 · 05/09/2026 08:20

Why can't they just hang around beside the lake where people sit or get dressed or whatever. Give them some treats. Just leave the cafe out of it.

The only covered area is the changing area, which is a wooden structure open on one side with pegs and benches. There’s no cubicles or privacy there and I think that people getting changed (who tend to mostly be women tbh) might feel uncomfortable with two boys hanging around, and my boys would also feel uncomfortable being in the changing area. the changing area is the only covered area so in rain it would be the only option and it’s still pretty exposed and there’s no protection from cold. Because of their age they aren’t old enough to swim so I don’t know if they’d even be allowed.

OP posts:
LiquoriceAllsorts2 · 05/09/2026 08:37

JustSaying10 · 05/09/2026 08:20

Why can't they just hang around beside the lake where people sit or get dressed or whatever. Give them some treats. Just leave the cafe out of it.

Because the cafe is more comfortable, warm, has toilets and provides food and drink.
why would hanging around by the lakeside be safer than a cafe

JassyRadlett · 05/09/2026 08:31

JustSaying10 · 05/09/2026 08:20

Why can't they just hang around beside the lake where people sit or get dressed or whatever. Give them some treats. Just leave the cafe out of it.

I mean, why not the cafe?

One of the motivations for OP is that the kids like the cafe and want to go there.

(Ignoring that the lakeside is fenced and paid access only, that the weather will turn before too long and sitting inside will be nicer than sitting outside, etc...)

Why not the cafe?

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 08:28

JustSaying10 · 05/09/2026 08:20

Why can't they just hang around beside the lake where people sit or get dressed or whatever. Give them some treats. Just leave the cafe out of it.

I think two young boys would find it quite awkward just hanging around where people are getting dressed.

What is the problem with them sitting in the cafe eating their breakfast?

DanaScullysLegoHair · 05/09/2026 08:28

OP, I wouldn't even bother coming back to 'explain yourself', you don't have to justify how and why you want to do this to appease random strangers on the internet.

Your plan is perfectly fine, the twins will enjoy their lunch and you'll enjoy your swim. Well, I hope you do after reading some of the responses on here!

JustSaying10 · 05/09/2026 08:20

Why can't they just hang around beside the lake where people sit or get dressed or whatever. Give them some treats. Just leave the cafe out of it.

Clarefromwork · 05/09/2026 08:20

At first I though you were being unreasonable as it felt like you were wanting them to be looked after by the staff but then when I thought about it I do know of a few 10/11/12 year olds who would walk to a cafe on their own for a drink and to feel grown up, or dropped off at a cafe with a friend for a few hours so it’s not really different to what you want to do.

sheepandbear · 05/09/2026 08:07

I don’t see a problem as long as the boys are ok with it and sensible enough to stay put for half an hour, not bicker or mess around. (I think mine would have been fine at 10.)
I’d do a test run and just swim for 15 minutes to see how it goes.

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 08:01

TulipsAndPancakes · 05/09/2026 07:59

Apologies didn't read every single reply 🙄

You don't need to read every reply but you could at least read all of OP's posts.

TulipsAndPancakes · 05/09/2026 07:59

Apologies didn't read every single reply 🙄

JassyRadlett · 05/09/2026 07:59

HiZev · 05/09/2026 07:53

I'm outer London and same. At my son's school the year 6 kids were almost universally allowed hang out unsupervised after school. This involved parks, shops and even (GASP) cafes. I guess areas where everyone drives in it isn't as common.

Yes I think there is a real driving culture aspect to some of the attitudes here - if your kids aren't developing what might be called "street smarts" naturally from a fairly young age and building up the skills by walking lots of places regularly, it's understandable you'd be more reticent about suddenly giving them more freedom/be more worried about what's age appropriate and what they're capable of.

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 07:58

TulipsAndPancakes · 05/09/2026 07:57

Are there any Saturday clubs they could do while you do swimming?
Football..dance etc? So they are supervised properly and you get an hour or so to yourself to swim?

They don't need to be supervised. And OP has already answered this question.

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 07:57

Pantomime2 · 05/09/2026 03:06

Why are you pretending not to understand simple concepts?

As stated "If ten year olds walk into a cafe, the owner/servers gets to decide if they want to serve unaccompanied minors and know exactly what's going on. If an over entitled middle class mummy does a bait and switch and leaves little Jasper and Jemima behind that's incredible over entitlement. Cafe workers are not your au pairs and did not agree to be your unpaid childcare."

It's not complicated. If she wants, she can send her kids to the shops on their own with money. She can leave them home alone.

She doesn't want that. She doesn't think they're ok on their own. She wants cafe workers to be their proxy childcare.

So send them out to the shops with money to spend, or leave them home alone, but do not try to pull a bait and switch so you have unpaid carers around. She does not trust they will be ok on their own. She wants backup. And she's decided the cafe owners can be her unpaid aupairs.

She's trying to sneakily ensure they have unpaid carers around because she does not think they're ok on their own. If she thought that, she'd leave them home alone for an hour. It's just not complex.

This is a very strange view. So it's ok for children to be at home on their own where they are capable of looking after themselves. It's ok for them to go to the shops independently where they are also capable of looking after themselves. But the second they sit down in the proximity of other adults they are suddenly no longer capable of looking after themselves and all the adults become their unpaid carers? Please can you explain your thinking here because I don't understand.

Also, if you bothered to read OP's posts you would see that these two boys are sometimes left home alone and they do go to the shops by themselves. To me, this suggest that they can also sit in a cafe by themselves but apparently this is where you draw the line. 🤷🏼‍♀️

TulipsAndPancakes · 05/09/2026 07:57

Are there any Saturday clubs they could do while you do swimming?
Football..dance etc? So they are supervised properly and you get an hour or so to yourself to swim?

HiZev · 05/09/2026 07:53

JassyRadlett · 05/09/2026 07:38

I'm in outer London and here is almost universally from Y5 that schools will allow it - so 9/10. So older than near you but not the "not until Y6" either.

I'm outer London and same. At my son's school the year 6 kids were almost universally allowed hang out unsupervised after school. This involved parks, shops and even (GASP) cafes. I guess areas where everyone drives in it isn't as common.

justkeepswimminginalake · 05/09/2026 07:53

Xanhi · 05/09/2026 07:42

If they are fine to be left, can't they just stay at home? Surely that would be nicer for them.

The reason I thought of the idea in the first place is that one of them asked to go to the cafe at the weekend. Going to a cafe would be more of a treat than staying home. If the cafe will take them, and they behave and we do this arrangement weekly maybe the novelty will wear off then they’ll want to stay home, but that’s a bridge to cross if we ever get to it.

OP posts:
justkeepswimminginalake · 05/09/2026 07:49

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 07:39

If it was just a seating area they wouldn't be able to get any food which is sort of the point them going to a cafe...

I tried to find this post to quote it but couldn’t and gave up. I think there’s a couple of seats or a bench in reception, which is decent size but thinking about it I’d be reluctant to leave them there because they’d feel in the way. It would just be them and the workers who’d probably want to chat in between people checking in but with the kids hanging around would probably feel like they couldn’t as much. And also in a quiet room, if the boys chat and play games rather than read, it will be more notable than if they were in the cafe which is designed for people to chat because they’d be the only ones talking. And like you said, they wouldn’t be able to get food there, and the whole reason I thought of the idea in the first place is they wanted to go to the cafe.

OP posts:
JassyRadlett · 05/09/2026 07:43

LimpRat · 05/09/2026 07:35

Near open water?! With presumably half naked swimming men wandering about(?)

No way. I'm fairly relaxed, but absolutely no way. If you got into trouble in the water, who would sort them out? You will have to sort actual childcare or wait a few years.

It's a small, life guarded lake with a gate where staff will prevent anyone from entering who haven't paid, not bloody Windermere.

And the children are ten, not five.

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 07:43

LimpRat · 05/09/2026 07:35

Near open water?! With presumably half naked swimming men wandering about(?)

No way. I'm fairly relaxed, but absolutely no way. If you got into trouble in the water, who would sort them out? You will have to sort actual childcare or wait a few years.

Would you allow 10 years old to go to a swimming pool? Because there are "half naked swimming men" wandering about there too.

Also, the open water is fenced off which you would know if you bothered to read OP's posts. In any case, 10 is old enough to understand water safety. And these two will be in a cafe. The water stays in the lake and therefore poses no threat to them.

Just when you think this thread can't get any more insane...

Xanhi · 05/09/2026 07:42

If they are fine to be left, can't they just stay at home? Surely that would be nicer for them.

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 07:39

PixieTales · 04/09/2026 23:03

My point is if they are sensible enough to sit on their own in a cafe for half and hour then of course they are more than fine to be at home for 1 hour where they are much safer and probably happier!

But let’s be honest OP says she doesn’t expect staff to look after them but she is assuming they will keep an eye. What if there were no staff it was just a seating area would she be happy to leave them then? I doubt it.

If it was just a seating area they wouldn't be able to get any food which is sort of the point them going to a cafe...

JassyRadlett · 05/09/2026 07:38

TheEdgyMoose · 05/09/2026 07:33

It's an England thing I think. I'm in Scotland and children walk to and from school themselves from age 7/8 here. For some reason they are much more cautious in England. Must be a new thing though because I grew up in England and was definitely walking home by myself before age 10.

I'm in outer London and here is almost universally from Y5 that schools will allow it - so 9/10. So older than near you but not the "not until Y6" either.