to leave ten year old twins in a cafe while I swim?

That's so young to play out on your own, I suppose it depends where you live but still.

Why the comparisons to teens on this thread, especially 16 year olds, they are nothing like 10 year olds they are young adults.

i haven’t read the whole thread but I am amazed how controversial this is. My DD10 walked with friends across various roads to a cafe on the seafront and they had ice cream. Then they came back.

Well you can, that's a bit like saying students can't learn to cook for themselves or clean up after themselves when they go to university, which is not exactly a hard thing to grasp if you have more than two brain cells! Besides, that's a bit of a difference between a ten year old and a 15/16 year old, what about the years in between to discover your independence, a 13 year old and a 10 year old is different again. One is a child still with a child's perception the other is a teen with a totally different approach to risk etc.

The choking argument is a strange one, as is the pervert argument.

What if an unaccompanied adult starts choking in a cafe? You’d hope that someone in the room would do something to help- either a staff member or customer. Someone might phone an ambulance, someone might attempt the Heimlich manoeuvre (I think it’s called something else now but I can’t remember what). Would that adult be unreasonable to hope and expect that someone would help them? Should unaccompanied adults not go to cafes in case they choke and therefore put an unreasonable burden on the people around them?

As for perverts, they can find all kinds of ways to access children, including: having children in their own families; having a job or community role that puts them in close contact with children; befriending and grooming single mums of children; grooming children via social media and online games. Most of these are sadly far more prevalent than perverts opportunistically spotting unaccompanied children in cafes and grooming them. And in any case, 10 year-olds should have been taught that not all adults are trustworthy or mean well.

I'm not sure they will be starting high school at all - the OP says she home educates them whilst she works from home.

Again, at what point are they a problem to anyone else?

The water is fenced off, they can't access it. Even if they could, at 10 years old I would expect them not to randomly jump into a lake. And if they do make it to the water, that's where their mum will be.

Sitting on their own in a public space... Why is this an issue? 10 year olds are on their own in public spaces all the time.

I would argue it's actually easier to "grab the parent" in this scenario. OP will have her phone in a tow float. If she was in a swimming pool it would be shut away in a locker.

Did you miss they would be in a cafe? Not sat on the edge of the M25?

Did you miss there would be lots of other people around?

How about the lifeguard that the OP mentioned?

What could they possibly need an adult (responsible or not) for in 30 mins sat drinking hot chocolate?

2 flights? Bloody hell woman!

I think OP knows whether her 10 year olds are mature enough not to suddenly fling themselves in the lake.
She knows her children are smart enough to ask an adult for help if they need it, just in the same way an adult might e.g. spilling a drink and asking for a cloth, asking where the toilets are.

What are your concerns? What do you think might happen?

We only get a babysitter for our two now (9 and 11) if we are out in the evening for several hours. They don't need babysitting in the day time, especially not for 30 minutes?? I almost feel it would be an insult to them if I suggested it! Maybe if we were going to be out all day, but tbf we never do that.

Obviously there is always the risk that they'll completely flip out and start a fire or be carried off by an eagle, but we just live with it.

Being near open water unsupervised. Sat on their own in a public space

Should 10yos never go to a park where there's a pond or a lake? At what point is it ok? At my secondary school, many people's quickest route home was through the park, which has a lake. Is it ok for 11yos to be near open water unsupervised?

Being near open water unsupervised. Sat on their own in a public space with a responsible adult unavailable while they swim in open water - it’s not a little swimming pool where you can grab the parent if there’s an issue.

There are loads of ways to teach children independence- as a previously qualified open water lifeguard I wouldn’t like this scenario.

This gave me a laugh. Im going to be extra careful going downstairs now! Two flights!!!!

It’s mortifying isn’t it? Mine is 9 and they are in the small minority of children in their class that don’t play out unsupervised / walk to school alone etc. I think that people just don’t want OP to do something for herself. She’s got her head screwed on though so I think she’ll do it anyway which I’m pleased about.

This.

The amount of pressure mums on mumsnet put on other mums is ridiculous.

I also wonder how they think children suddenly become more mature and responsible as they get older without practising in situations like this and dealing with small issues before the have to deal with larger ones.

Worst case scenario they spill hot chocolate everywhere, even over themselves. As someone who has worked in hospitality most adults expect staff to deal with these so why shouldn't children.

I live in a rough area but the local McDonalds would have to report 7/8/9/10 year olds being ‘left alone’ there every weekend and would be laughed at. They literally are in there for an hour after making their own way there on the bus train or bike lol. I took my (9) child to the park last night and half their class was there the whole time unsupervised! How on earth is it a police matter? Women just don’t what other women to do anything for themselves, so weird!

Define a long period of time though. Under an hour doesn’t count as that IMO.

This place now makes very clear unsupervised minors are not allowed.

So no-one under 18?

Get someone to babysit them at home.

They are not babies. They don't require a babysitter. I should think most 10yos would be appalled at the suggestion of a 'babysitter'.

At what point in this scenario are the children a problem to anyone?

This is absolutely fine and mine used to sit in cafe whilst I did parkrun at a similar age.
also I remember distinctly my son used to walk to Tesco cafe and have breakfast with his friend and his was definitely in primary school when that happened.
This thread is absolutely nuts- just do it, it’s good for them, good for you, ignore all the helicopter parenting.
I am a teacher and there is nothing worse than Year 7s who aren’t allowed out on their own and haven’t learnt any independence or resilience skills. You are failing as a parent if they don’t learn independence.

Please don’t be one of those selfish parents who makes their kids someone else’s problem. Get someone to babysit them at home.

The law on leaving your child on their own - GOV.UK

I thought 12 was the law but anyway. I hope it al works out for mum so she can have a swim

It could, I suppose. But I think there is a difference between 10 and 12 years of age in terms of maturity and coping skills, if there were to be a problem- but if you view it otherwise, then that’s fine. I was outlining what had actually happened where my DD worked. As it happens, I highly doubt two 12 year olds would wander into that particular place, because of its geographical location. But, nevertheless the lack of adult supervision of minors in a public case did cause a problem in this instance- distressing for children and staff (almost certainly would not have happened if they had not been left unattended, and even if it had, the parent would have been immediately available to assist). Additionally, this resulted in police and social work involvement. This place now makes very clear unsupervised minors are not allowed.

Again, I agree it is unlikely that anything untoward will happen- but if it does, there may be problems arising from that decision- and that might be a risk you are comfortable with. Personally, I would not be and I don’t think it’s fair to leave the staff to manage any issues.

At age 10 we could drop our kids off at the local leisure centre where they could go swimming unaccompanied (provided they were confident swimmers) I see no problem with leaving 2 sensible 10 year olds eating breakfast in a cafe for half an hour. It would be an excellent way of starting to build up their independence before high school.

I think the OP benefitting from it in some way has thrown people off! People don’t seem to want women to have any happiness, it’s mental!

The swimming is good for her health and her mental health. The kids can have some yummy food and feel grown up and put money into a local business. I assume if OP is open water swimming then her own children are safe around water at age 10 anyway (will have been with school by this point) I just can’t see a downside and am shocked by the responses. At age 10 kids are going into McDonalds with their mates etc. I think OP should trial it with a quick 1st session. A couple of quid tip to the waiter / waitress for feeding back any issues, jobs a good one if you ask me, everyone’s a winner.