AIBU to feel middle-class luxuries have become increasingly out of reach?

I’m sure she spends plenty!

Yep, the really rich amongst us are very frugal usually.

I feel I should agree because I never treat myself to this sort of thing and our disposable income shouldn't prevent us making these sort of purchases..But then I think about my parents..Their combined income would also have been very comfortable and yet my dad spent his life in charity shops ( mainly for books) and my mum tended to only buy from M& S other than the odd splurge for a particular outfit for a significant do. They were also pretty frugal types.

So I don't think anyone in my family would have spent much without a good cause. Certainly wasn't normal to buy coffee and cake unless with a family member for some reason.

Perhaps we've fallen in love with the idea of treating ourselves, (understandably, its a really nice feeling).Who knows.

Well indeed. But they do say that the most frugal are often the richest.

I think it’s been a pastime for a bit longer, Selfridges opened over 100 years again & was a “destination”.

As to clothes, take heart that Princess Anne still wears clothes she wore back in the 1970’s.

Yes but then I lose heart because I’m not worth 30 mill…

Very true. Shopping is now a pastime. It never used to be. Shopping has become a hobby.

@BoredZelda I agree

100k 5 years ago will need to be 130k today to account for inflation & you will lose more to tax. The wider impact is big.

but we can't use the libraries because according to a previous poster, libraries have become notorious for men using them for porn

apart from the facts that libraries have CCTV, IT-enforced internet search policies, a high risk of arrest for doing such a thing and that many people (including men) have had internet-capable smart phones since 2010

Some phone-owning men exist in the Venn diagram overlap of having a home

Agree I haven’t bought a coffee out in so long and can make amazing coffee at home and take it out

I make my daughter fancy hot chocolates at home now too

id rather spend the money on a day out and bring own food - it seems an awful waste to use money on that in a cafe at the moment

also used to enjoy a pint in the local on a Saturday afternoon and get the kids chips - but again the prices just stopped that it’s 7.50 for a pint in the local now so 2 pints and chips is easily 20£

Being a bit hard up and middle class is nothing new.
Some middle class people are well off, not everyone is.
Some working class people are decidedly rich. Not all working class people are.

People have a varying degree of disposable income. Some bemoaning a lack of it still have holidays abroad, drive the SUV, have two car households, and the latest gadgets. Not all, some.

As to clothes, take heart that Princess Anne still wears clothes she wore back in the 1970’s.

@backformoreofthesame we will have to agree to disagree as I don’t think pubs were the reserve of the upper middle class.

With the joint income coming into our account, it’s incredible that we have to think twice about buying items that 5 years ago we’d have splurged on with no thought. The “for fun” line on my budget is much over than it used to be after we account for essentials. I know we’re in a much better position than a lot of people, and if we are having to cut back so much, those who had very little disposable income are obviously finding it much harder.

Whenever I mention this, people will trot out the “diamond shoes too tight” line but what they miss is, the effect this has on the economy / other people. It means we are paying less VAT. It also means the people who supply the goods and services we would have bought are worse off too. Dinners out were 2 or 3 times a month, now we rarely do it, fewer takeaways, trips to the cinema etc. We don’t have a cleaner any more. Of course I’m fine with cleaning my own house but it means A) someone is out of a job and B) we have less leisure time to spend money.

And, it’s only going to get worse.

When I was in my 20s I bought clothes, socialised and went abroad without thinking about the cost and did it all one one professional salary. Now I am conscious of the amount that is being extorted from me in tax even though Im retired, I resent every penny of it because I see it as poor value for money.

Several people I know have side hustles (which they quietly don't declare) on top of a PAYE job. We are not talking about people cheating on benefit. Rather working people finding it had to keep their heads above water and maintain a decent lifestyle. Not huge sums of money here - maybe £300-£500 a month. Not funding a lavish lifestyle but to pay the basic utility bills and the ripoff council tax. In times of economic hardship the black economy booms. People may pay lip service to "I pay my taxes" when they have no choice through PAYE - then do a bit of gardening, cleaning or dog walking on the side simply to make ends meet.

This is exactly the point I am trying to make though

clearly badly !

we all had different experiences growing up as to what is normal and luxurious and that colours how you see your life

grow up in a community that didn’t have coffee shops ( I had heard of Lyon’s it was in a story book - and it was seriously upper middle class there ) and things seem amazing today

grow up in a family with marginally more free cash and you feel poverty stricken

Well if you'd been sold a dress with blood on it you'd be entitled to a refund.

Two things are true here:

1. We consume more than we used to, collectively (although consumer goods also existed 50 years ago), and probably far too much.
2. These things becoming less and less affordable may be some sort of historical correction but this also doesn't bode well for the economy.

Nobody needs to buy new books and should be using their library. Authors get paid when libraries buy their book and every time a book is borrowed. If we don’t use libraries we really will lose them. No way am I spending a grand on books every year when I don’t need to.

@backformoreofthesame people in the past did not “treat” themselves to 1 cake or beer a year. It’s utter nonsense!

Lyon’s alone had 200 tea shops & there were thousands of bakeries.

Agree, we are a £160k per annum household and husband and I use the local libraries and my daughter volunteers at our local one. We used to use a couple in a bit of a rough area where we used to live and no one was watching porn - are the computers not locked down? When i was a kid you'd get the odd old person in there who probably hadn't had a wash for a week reading the papers. You can get free coffee and tea in ours.

Same as you, I order books as soon as they come out and usually get them quite quickly.

I agree with others - this middle class lifestyle people think they can't afford isn't a lifestyle that has previously been one that the middle class tried to have - new cars all the time, latest phones and tech. It was get things mended and out for meals on special occasions, not buying cocktails every week.

Poland and ROI are doing well but Germany and France have stalled or have high debt. Poland has benefitted because it’s levelled up, low CT has aided ROI - we won’t vote for that.

Plus other issues for various countries including here.

Yep, I remember looking at the pretty girl's dresses in Monsoon as a child in the 90s and knowing they were unattainable at that price.

But as a young teen I was happily shopping Bay Trading Co and MK One with my pocket money.

well, in that case, you'll be able to provide the links to the fiscal evidence that backs up your claim, no?

oh, look, I've done it for you, How have government revenues changed over time? | Institute for Fiscal Studies the numbers and trend don't quite support the claim you are making, because we were pretty much where we are now in 2022-23

Funny that

The triple lock alone adds billions to the annual benefits bill so of course taxes have to go up. An ageing population is incredibly expensive particularly when we have done nothing to plan for it.

Yes the middle class are the new working class and the working class are the new poor and the poor are still poor. The rich are still rich because it doesn’t affect them.

i get my clothes off Vinted , rarely wear make up and get my books from the library. Sephora monsoon and Waterstones are all expensive places. You can get all those things significantly cheaper else where.