To wonder why parents don’t take responsibility for their children’s behaviour?

As a teacher of 30 years I'd say some parents just don't know how to parent, some find themselves living in circumstances anyone would struggle with, drugs, alcohol and neurodivergence themselves or in the child are just some of the reasons. If you read the school related threads on MN there are also parents who seem to think teachers should let their children chat in class, bother other students and generally do what they like for fear of upsetting them and I suspect this is increasingly a reason although I have retired now and am well out of it.

OP, this is a very black and white view. Many, many factors contribute including parenting but also neurodiversity, trauma, poverty, unsupportive school environment etc.

Some parents are undoubtedly in denial about their parenting because it is very raw to look inwards and realise that you are the - or at least a major cause - of your child’s issues. I have had to do exactly that myself. I was the parent who only served organic food, limited screen time, imposed consequences etc but my traditional parenting approach which had worked so well with my older NT child wasn’t what my ND child needed - they required a different and much more attuned type of parenting.

I was extremely fortunate that we had the financial means to obtain external professional support and outsource domestic duties. Without the resources and support we accessed, I believe our ND teenager would currently be on a path to jail and/or addiction now.

Please be mindful that many parents will be suffering with very poor mental health themselves (as I was) but don’t have the resources or emotional capacity to address this.

Also unless you have parented a challenging ND child (teenagers in particular), it is impossible to describe how difficult it is compared with an NT child/teen. I can only describe it as akin to living in a war zone with a nervous system on constant high alert.

@Factcheckingwhilstbored i do get that, I think the hardest thing about ds is the judgement or the fear of judgement. I really, really want others to think he’s a lovely little boy, as stupid as that sounds. And he can be but also he has done some things that are, well, pretty awful to be honest, and I am mortified and so upset.

I remember in the early days of meeting DH he had a bit of an upset stomach and kept going to the toilet and confessed he’d been feeling a bit off all day but hadn’t wanted to let me down in case it scuppered his chances (bless him.) We had a weird conversation where we agreed that bodies react differently to ‘under the weather’ syndrome. If I’m in the slightest bit off I feel sick or am sick; I get car sick, I was sick when pregnant, I feel sick when very nervous. With DH if was bowels but some people get headaches or rashes or faint.

I think emotional stresses are similar and some children become very clingy, some cry, some won’t join in, some start refusing to do anything (‘would you like some chocolate, a new toy and a cold drink?’ ‘NO!’ sort of responses) and other children get aggressive. Unfortunately that is my ds: emotional turmoil of any sort can tip into physical stuff. It’s got better and I thought it had stopped altogether at one point but it seems not: we’ve had a few incidents this summer.

He has had a lot to process and deal with of late and I am understanding of that but I still need him to understand that aggression just isn’t acceptable. However, as much as that sounds both compassionate and firm, in practice it’s a lot harder. I am a bit limited in what meaningful consequences I can actually give for one (on both occasions we left immediately but it was edging towards the end of our session anyway when the incidents happened so he only actually missed about ten / fifteen minutes) and lost TV for the rest of the day. But how meaningful is this? It feels like a very weak response in all honesty! And he’s five: pray to god he grows out of it as I’ll be struggling if he’s doing it at fifteen.

It’s the worst feeling when you love your child so much but have these horrible thoughts of ‘are they just not a nice child; are they a bully; are they mean? Are they going to have no friends? Will they be ostracised from parties? Will they end up in prison?’ (yes I know … I do catastrophise a bit!) Then because I am a nice person I feel so upset another child’s been hurt but I also love my son and have that instinct to want to protect him and understand and you’re asking ‘what happened, please tell me!’ and get these nonsensical answers and rambles that are clearly lies!

I wish I had the answers here but I don’t. I desperately want to believe he’s not a bad child and I’m not a bad parent and I’m holding onto that as a way of trying to keep my sanity!

I don't know where you are getting data from to say it's usually down to trauma, but my thoughts are it usually down to peer pressure

“Yes, ND children often get parented in a way that is less effective.“

Your evidence for this? Because it’s not what I see. Parents of ND children are often the most skilled at parenting in very difficult circumstances . I’m often left in awe. Who are you to say how parents of ND children should parent?

i was a hard teenager, a mixture of childhood SA and then got in with the wrong croad. I never ever felt ‘normal’ or like I fitted in and the bad croad made me feel l belonged. Fast forward a few years and I now live in a very affluent area, on paper excellent parents with strong boundaries and good jobs. But the reality is in this modern world that with both parents out of the house working they don’t know what the teens are up to.

There is 0 support for a child with behavioural issues, CAHMS have a several year wait list. What do you expect parents to do in the meantime? Nothing is ever black and white and blaming the parents whilst also not offering any solution or answers help.

Things like "class leaving passes" are only required because it's one size fits all in education, teachers not being allowed to use professional judgement, good kids who want to learn being made anxious and constantly on edge by draconian, sledgehammer to crack a nut rules.

@newseries I realise it was young children and I may come across as harsh but the problem with this thread is that people with children who are playing up, will feel it is personally bashing them and their parenting. I may be wrong but I don’t believe that is what the OP was meaning. It is about the sheer percentage who take zero responsibility not about parents who are trying their absolute best in difficult circumstances. It’s clear that you and @Rasperry are taking responsibility.

I hear your frustration, I am not exempt from the child with behavioural issues, I have one of my own. And it is exhausting. But I take responsibility for it. I work with the school, I don’t blame their neuro diversity, I try to work with the brain they have and seek solutions. I don’t always get it right but I listen to teachers, believe them and act accordingly.

It’s hard if you don’t work with children/teens yourself but there are many many out there who don’t have parents who take responsibility. And they are the ones I am referring to. And they come from ALL walks of life.

As an aside on this thread I can’t see any examples of parents who didn’t take responsibility and try their best in difficult circumstances. You’re all clearly wonderful mums and I know how bloody hard it is!

@Factcheckingwhilstbored i think @Rasperry s child is very young, nursery age.

I remember asking advice on my one year old biter on here and got some good advice but also some absolutely mad advice about marching in and insisting my barely verbal child apologised to the child he’d bitten (whose identity I didn’t even know!)

I know with my DS, I absolutely take responsibility and as @Rasperry says am mortified and embarrassed … but unfortunately consequences and clear boundaries don’t seem to be making very much difference. That is not to say I think all is doomed but I am already very aware how easily he could go completely off the rails.

For one, an apology, then backing up consequences at home. Setting boundaries. I have made it VERY clear that it isn’t all parents. I’ve also made it very clear that any personal cases here may not fall into this pattern, and you may be mortified, apologetic, you may ask about triggers because you genuinely want to understand BUT you’d be crazy if you thought that this is the response we get from all parents because it is not.

Many parents do laugh it off, many parents do say nothing, many parents do try to find a ‘trigger’ to use as an excuse. I’ve witnessed staff visibly shaking after being bitten and hit. I’ve seen staff leave because of daily physical assaults from children. I’ve seen staff on medications. This isn’t hyperbole this is the truth. You’ll know how big even some young children are and how much of a punch they can throw.

OP has asked about responsibility, I do think we as parents should take responsibility, regardless of the reasons behind behaviour (and they are complex, of course they are) and work with schools, professionals and the local authority to support. But sad to say many do not.

If teenage onset then I wouldn’t necessarily blame the parents. More likely peer group or cultural influences or a trauma like an assault or bullying going on outside the home

It’s a mix of nature and nurture, but sometimes nature or life (trauma for example) throws a spanner in the works that no amount of nurture can fix. Just like some kids become decent adults despite awful upbringings.

As the parent of a young biter (and kicker, hitter, it goes on…, I’m genuinely curious as to how you expect parents to react or behave (at the door or in meetings)?

Yes, there are parents who clearly DGAF and will blame or laugh it off. But I think fot most parents it’s mortifying, embarrassing and stressful. I cried once at pick up because I was so fed up and felt helpless - at the end of the day, the parent isn’t around during the day to intervene.

Asking what the triggers are seems fair enough. It’s also possible parents know how to manage it, so open communication is best.

If the child’s awful at nursery or school, it’s no easier for the parents most of the time.

Yeah I think most researchers agree it is nature AND nurture.

This is ridiculously naive and clearly coming from someone who hadn't yet got teens. Its absolutely right that at 15+ they should be out with friends, not late, not completely without some idea of what they're doing but ultimately they need some autonomy. Its much much harder to know their friends when you stop doing a school run or having playdates. Unless you have the space and budget to become the hangout home, you may well not meet them.

My 3 sons all had a good role model in their father. Two of them followed it.

I doubt this will be popular but I think parenting boys in particular, without a good male role model is very difficult. My son learned to be a good man because of his father, there were no lessons, he just saw how his father behaved and his attitude to me.Boys used to work alongside older men and would be called to heel sharply if they stepped out of line; I suspect many employers would be wary of this now. It’s also a bit of luck, if their friends are decent they’ll probably turn out okay. Wrong crowd? Very hard to overturn.

What action should I have taken when my 16 year old son started to behave inappropriately and I suspected that he was in with the wrong crowd? Or indeed that he was the wrong crowd.

Specific examples, please

To save time, here are the usual suggestions:

"Remove phone = I have no means of getting in touch with him
And, if he was dealing, his supplier could easily get him a burner.

"Turn off wifi" = There is no shortage if WiFi out in the rest of the world.

"Ground him" = He ignored all our rules

"Throw him out" = So that he can disappear forever. He was 16.

I don't need to be told that CSA leads to risk taking behaviour.
I took exception to your hypothesising about CSA as being the cause of risk taking behaviour in a child who is not part of your family or professional circle

From my small amount of experience, this is very much not the case in all families. To take one example, I have a good friend whose teen is causing so much trouble and it’s not for lack of parenting.

It opened my eyes to the little support out there. My friend is resorting to paying for support / therapy but CAHMS just wants to get the teen off their caseload. It really shocking. The other child in the family does not present with the same issues. School help but they can only do so much.

I’m not surprised that many teens whose parents can’t or won’t advocate for them go completely off the rails.

@RampantIvywe must live in the same town. The problem for me is the lack of consequences. We’ve not only had a recent incident in the bus station where a guard was beaten and filmed, but we’ve had a massive increase in the number of girls who assault other girls and then also film it for the benefit of social media. Sadly, my daughter was one of these girls and they actually almost killed her. She’s never been the same, and the stigma of being a girl who was “jumped” on social media still follows her 3 years later. Luckily for us, the two girls responsible were prosecuted and the judge ordered it be kept on their record for life. BUT, we were a rare occurrence. I see these fights and incidents all the time on social media and nothing seems to be done about it. That’s the problem we’re facing.

and yet when they come to Juvenile Court they use the broken home/abusive upbringing/ mental health issues on why they committed the crime, the worse the better

I'm someone who believes strongly in parental influence on their children but I still think this is a bit simplistic.

Yes, ND children often get parented in a way that is less effective. Because the parents don't know any better, are overwhelmed as often as becuse they think children should just behave differently. Ditto, good kids can go bad with poor parental decisions which may be made for any number of reasons. But at the same time, there are other factors - outside influence, natural personality of the child, school, friends, abuse etc.

we have a chld in our broader family. There is no question that he is very difficutl to parent. It's also an unfortunate truth that his parents are both fairly ineffective and both are constantly bemused by the fact that he doesn't behave the way they think he should. He's ND but it has taken until he's almost a teen for that to be confirmed because his parents were first in denial and then when they decided they did need support, they're overwhelmed and stressed and it took them 4 years to get any sort of diagnosis. The relationship between his parents is also poor and his father in particular has a lot of issues which have impacted him including regularly disappearing for months at a time. Plus Covid was bad for veryone, but I suspect his experience was worse. His parents weren't great about getting him out and about pre-Covid, needless to say, during Covid he was just at home, all day, every day.

His mum wants the best for him and is doing her best, but she doesn't have the support of a decent partner and her own issues mean she hasnt listened to school or other professionals. Any feedback given to or about him she pushes back on aggressively, I suspect becaus she felt as a child that her parents NEVER supported he (from what I can tell, that's not untrue).

It's not as simple as, "parents don't care or put the effort in". Even when parents are makign the mistakes, it's not a simple, "they're not trying hard enough".