Dog crates are cruel

As in remove all wood furniture, all sofas annd chairs, all cushions all electrical cables etc etc. You are being silly.

We have foster kittens from birth sometimes, and they teeth...

Really tiny kittens have no sense of self preservation.

Yes, i know 3 dogs who have had cruciate repair rest - successfully. None were put in a cage.

Actually DDog's favourite place is my bed, wriggling herself under the duvet. It's where she goes if she is scared, e.g. because of thunder or fireworks.

Sadly for dDog, I am a restless sleeper and disturb her sleep. So she emerges from the duvet, sighs reproachfully, and settles on the cushion under the bed.

In the very hot weather she chose to snooze under a corner table that had just floor boards underneath to keep cooler.

I am part of an ad hoc dog walking group of a dozen or so dogs, we just happen to walk.our dogs at the same time in the same place and have become friends. The only dog from this group that is put in a cage is for travelling - his iwners visit family in Eastern Europe 3 or 4 times a year, so the cage is used in the car to get thete and back, and when staying with relatives in city flats for a day or 2 - with plenty of walks. The dog is a high energy spaniel, if it was a calmer dog they probably wouldn't need to restrict it so much in the flat. It's very much a temporary measure.

I didn't realise you knew my vets better than I do they're very honest about any behavioural issues or problems they have - they've looked after all our animals over the past decade and I take many dogs there for clients too.

In terms of cruciate repair, crate rest is not the only option. And I know full-well my dog will never have to go on a plane, lol.

Very silly post. Of course they shouldn't be. A dog has a crate as a safe space that's theirs as generally they will be fed in there.

I’m happy to call ours a cage 🤷🏻‍♀️, doesn’t change the fact that our dog takes herself off there to snooze happily!

Well shit guess I better tell my dog his crate is cruel

Hes currently lying upside down in it, legs in the air snoring. The door is open, he puts himself in there.

Mind you it is an xxl crate so he can sprawl

A crate is just a nice word for cage

They often don't, but cats tend not to be confined so much and when they are - at the vets for example - the owner is unaware that their cat has spent several hours pre-op screaming and trying to get out. However cats typically shut down and withdraw when upset rather than scream to get out.

All pets would benefit from early handling training to get them comfy with crates/carriers/confinement, being handled up on an exam table, getting jabs (fake it with an empty biro case, pair it with treats). Cats are small enough to be manhandled though and have this myth that they can't be trained so many of them suffer when they do need to be handled... but again that often happens out of the owners sight (vets, groomers) and unless the cat has actually caused the vet/groomer to require stitches, often the owner will be told 'oh he was fine'.

😁😁😁
Oh wow there's alot isn't there !!!
I didn't realise someone was monitoring my typing and use of exclamation marks sooooo sorry !!!!!
You must be super bored 😴

Our dog had a crate as a puppy. It no longer has a door on it. She chooses to sleep there.

SO your dog hasn't had to have crate rest for say cruciate ligment ops or flown in a crate... thats fine if you can guarantee that your dog will never need to use a crate. Most people can't quite see into the future that well.

Do note that most vets will tell you your dog was 'just fine' waiting in the crate at the vet (they're built in but still the same as a crate) before an op, even if they were absolutely not 'just fine' at all. Groomers tend to do the same thing.

They really only tell you your dog is not handling being crated if they are actually going to hurt themselves trying to get out or howling the place down without stopping for breath.

My dog is crate trained. It’s used when I go out she has no problem with it and knows I am going out and see needs to go to sleep. Which she does.

she also takes herself if into the crate when there are thunderstorms etc it’s her safe place

when I am home it’s never used even when visitors come

used correctly it’s fine

DDog hss various places in the house where she goes for peace and quiet. Her favourite is under my bed, where she has a comfy cushion. There's no need to provide a cage for a dog to have a quiet little den when they want one. Just respect it when they choose to tuck themselves away.

There is a huge difference between animal
cruelty in whatever form it takes and using a crate as a bed/den for a dog who likes it. We used a crate for our puppy in a quiet space and he went in there on his own when he wanted quiet or peace from us. We stopped closing the door once he was toilet trained so pretty early on. We only just got rid of it after a few years because he also had a bed and was taking up too much floor space. But he still went in there for naps.

so no, crates are not cruel, people are cruel.

Oh and she still takes herself off into her crate for a snooze!

Most unemployed people can’t afford decent pet food/spaying/immunisations/insurance etc etc.

Please get in touch with Dogs Trust and rspca and give them a lecture. They obviously know nothing about dogs.

They both recommend crate training and if you visit dogs trust rehoming centres, most dogs have a covered crate which they can go into. It's their safe place

She’s 16 now, living her life out in glorious contentment. This was 15.5 years ago. It wasn’t anxiety, it was the fact that she was a 6 month old puppy.

Ditto with a working lab. He loved visiting workmen, he carried their tools around, he took them up the garden. He never stopped.

He didn't suffer anxiety or anything. He just wanted to be part of everything. He also chewed through some electric wires. Then wanted to help the electrician repair them.

He loves his crate. He now sleeps with the door open. I want to get rid of it because it is so big. But he loves it too much.

I agree. We did one night with our dog in a crate downstairs and never again. She can snuggle on whichever human bed she chooses or her own bed in our room but crate just no.

I don't think they should be banned. When used appropriately with the correct training and responsible ownership they are fine.

In many cases it is good to crate train a dog, it allows safe transportation in vehicles, it isn't distressing for them if they require a stay at the vets, they offer a place of security for the dog to sleep/ withdraw from humans/ other animals (when used correctly). It gives a safe space for the dog to be in if they are frightened/ destructive when been left alone for periods of time by their owner. They can be used when the dog is taken on holiday.

The key is correct usage and training. This is very much an owner education issue. Many dog owners do not (through lack of education rather than cruelty) crate train correctly or use crates inappropriately or for inappropriate lengths of time.

Crates are not inherently cruel, it is the inappropriate usage of them that is cruel. In the story it is poor ownership that led to the suffering and deaths of the dogs.

Muzzles have a similar bad reputation but when used appropriately and with the correct training in place and with good owner education and responsibility they are a vital safeguard for many dogs and allow the dog more freedom than they could have if they were not muzzled.

I say it every time there is an incident with a dog. A sizeable proportion of dog owners are unintentionally poor and irresponsible owners. It is not because they mean to be or are purposely intending to be poor owners. There is a real lack of high quality, thorough good dog ownership education. Puppy classes do not cover it and extra training classes can cost a lot of money. A lot of people only do the puppy classes. It takes more than a course of puppy classes to have a properly trained dog. It takes time, commitment and dedication. A properly trained dog does not pull at lead, they walk at close health until instructed otherwise by their owner. A properly trained dog has excellent recall that is almost 99% guaranteed, they will return to their owner when called regardless of what distraction is occuring. A properly trained dog does not react or approach to any human or animal unless explicitly instructed to by their owner. They do not sit at tables/ jump up at tables/ beg for scraps. They do not bark unless alerted to danger or explicitly instructed to by their owner. How many properly trained dogs do people encounter? I can count on 1 hand how many I've seen in the last 10 years.

My kittens never did chew, fortunately! Scratch, yes, destroy the curtains by running up and down them, absolutely, but they seemed to know what they could safely do.

I didn't really care if they (or my dog) damaged the furnishings, as long as they didn't hurt themselves, but my dog when he was a pup he didn't have the same sense of self-preservation as my cats, and had to be trained not to chew things.

My husband didn't work so was around for our pup all day but it's unrealistic never to leave a puppy unattended for short periods, e.g, while having a shower, and, indeed, they need to learn gradually to be left alone if you don't want to end up with a dog that has separation anxiety. So we used the crate for short periods during the day, and overnight.

By the time our doggie was 'grown up' he was happy to be left for a morning or afternoon when needed, because we'd built up to it, starting with literally a few minutes, and he had the freedom of the house by then because we'd been able to train him to know what he should and shouldn't play with.

Key difference is that your rats live in their enclosure. A dog does not.

Common sense lacking these days..